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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2012-10-10 21:03:50 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
please make sure this adds no extra server calls or data requests from the server


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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-10-10 21:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
CCP Karkur,

There are some information that we just don't need, Like the Square in the middle of the screen saying " X blablabla bblaba alba 150 damgage uabauabu" we just read the numbers, we just need the numbers.... Remove it completly. and Place only the damage value over the shotting ship Bracket (hitting icon), with the same color transparency as the blink (of the hitting icon). And also The damage that we do, the yellow one, Place it Above ower weapon icon!!! that is it!!! And if you want to do some thing for the logistics too it will be awesome!!!!

Anyway... if you want a more detailed damage info... look at the log...



thx

o7

Please read these!

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CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#103 - 2012-10-10 21:04:42 UTC
mkint wrote:
What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?

The hit icons will not play there... there is no room for them.
We don't all agree on how the targeted/agressing brackets will be... they might just stay as they are now except their blink rate and color/opacity will match the inspace targeted/agressing brackets

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Resilan Bearcat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-10-10 21:05:04 UTC
I like the concept shown for the additional information shown on the brackets. The dev blog shows a targeting icon based on targeting range. This is mostly useless information for me. I live and fight in wormholes where most encounters occur at very close range. What I care about is the weapon range for my weapons and selected ammo. From a personal perspective, I would prefer to see the targeting icon when a target is inside my optimal + falloff instead of the targeting range of my ship.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#105 - 2012-10-10 21:05:10 UTC
I worry that switching the 'rows of HP bars' for 'rings of HP bars' while make it harder to tell what you're hitting. Perhaps colour code it, with shields blue, armour green, and hull yellow?

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2012-10-10 21:06:25 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
So.. Which one is shield?



Agree with this...intuitively I though shield would be the first starting at top left and round the clock go armor and hull... but form the screenshots it seems hull is at top left... I have to admit the old 3 stacked bars give a much better idea of the health of a ship in one very quick glance.

The icons look good, I like the hit animation and think I want to see who is dealing the most damage to me, not how good or bad the hit they just inflicted was.

One idea for the in range icon...how about coloring the brackets green or blue? Dunno, maybe too many colors at once.

Also, it seems the counter in seconds for projected effects is gone, not happy about that... I kinda like to know I am screwed for 20 seconds and counting ... and how long I have until it expires...I usually relied more on that than the actual bar filling up.

In all I like the work and how it's looking. The hit icon is just an awesome idea!

Maybe a small video showing how this looks in action would help sell the idea.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#107 - 2012-10-10 21:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Hmm, I note that module timers go around clockwise, but start at the 6 o'clock location. The damage circle also goes around clockwise, but starts at the 12 o'clock position.

Everything goes clockwise, nice and consistent. But they start at inconsistent locations.

Edit: Except the HUD. It goes counterclockwise with damage.

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CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2012-10-10 21:07:19 UTC
Resilan Bearcat wrote:
I like the concept shown for the additional information shown on the brackets. The dev blog shows a targeting icon based on targeting range. This is mostly useless information for me. I live and fight in wormholes where most encounters occur at very close range. What I care about is the weapon range for my weapons and selected ammo. From a personal perspective, I would prefer to see the targeting icon when a target is inside my optimal + falloff instead of the targeting range of my ship.

We are actually working on something like that... but we haven't started implementing it so I can't comment much more than that we are looking into that P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
HxChippiewill
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-10-10 21:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: HxChippiewill
The hit icon opacity thing sounds very cool and is a very nice visual indicator. However my concern is that it'll effectively display individual shots rather than the rate of incoming damage from a target. What I would suggest is that you have a value for opacity that diminishes at a certain rate (Whether it's linear, exponential or whatever isn't exactly important) and on each hit the value is topped up a little bit depending on the damage of the hit (Still the ratio of damage to HP) so that you can still see each individual shot come in as the opacity suddenly increases. So now a missile volley (Massive value) and turret shots (loads of little values) are now visibly comparable as you now have in a way a display of average incoming damage rather than what the last shot was like which isn't very helpful when you're trying to decide whether a missile boat or a turret boat is dealing more damage.
darius mclever
#110 - 2012-10-10 21:07:55 UTC
can you add a screenshot how this looks like e.g. in fleet fights of different sizes? 30-40 people shooting you, 100 shooting you?
CCP Masheen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#111 - 2012-10-10 21:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Masheen
mkint wrote:
What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?


Good question!

Short answer: in Retribution we're not changing the overview.

The reason for this is that In the overview the square in which you can see the icons for locking/aggressing etc. is a tiny area in which there is very little room for tweaking. For that reason the new design retains the color-coding of yellow and red brackets that you recognize to mean "has you locked" and "has you aggressed".


EDIT: Dammit Karkur you were too fast versus my glacial typing pace!

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Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#112 - 2012-10-10 21:10:24 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Everything goes clockwise, nice and consistent. But they start at inconsistent locations.


http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/overheat-1.png

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
agrajag119
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-10-10 21:10:39 UTC
Please let us keep the option to see raw #'s somewhere. I like to know at a glance, numerically, what the time to lock is or what % my enemies shields are without a mouseover. Our eyes are well trained to spot percentages on a bar -scale, not so much for partial arc.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#114 - 2012-10-10 21:10:46 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
The client has all the information we need already... if anything you should be worried about client performance. But we are keeping a close eye on that, and if the client is not performing well enough, we are ready to react to that and cut stuff if needed.

Be sure to test it in a mission with clouds, zoomed in, on an Apple laptop, all at the same time.

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CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#115 - 2012-10-10 21:11:27 UTC
HxChippiewill wrote:
The hit icon opacity thing sounds very cool and is a very nice visual indicator. However my concern is that it'll effectively display individual shots rather than the rate of incoming damage from a target. What I would suggest is that you have a value for opacity that diminishes at a certain rate (Whether it's linear, exponential or whatever isn't exactly important) and on each hit the value is topped up a little bit depending on the damage of the hit (Still the ratio of damage to HP) so that you can still see each individual shot come in as the opacity suddenly increases. So now a missile volley (Massive value) and turret shots (loads of little values) are now visibly comparable as you now have in a way a display of average incoming damage rather than what the last shot was like which isn't very helpful when you're trying to decide whether a missile boat or a turret boat is dealing more damage.

We did actually try that first... but then the big shots got completely lost.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#116 - 2012-10-10 21:11:57 UTC
I'm not sure I understand why color-coding the bars is so important. Shield is the one that turns red first; armor is the one that turns red second; hull is the one that turns red last. The important summary is "how red is the circle?" If the bars were proportional to the size of the defense type (so shield tanked ships would have a long first bar, etc.) that would be cool.

It would be even more intuitive if the ship's own HUD worked that way, so that the presentation of information was absolutely consistent, right down to the HUD pulsing brightly when you land a wrecking strike, and dimly when you just graze your target.



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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#117 - 2012-10-10 21:13:06 UTC
Is this the first step leading up to a (imo much needed) complete overhaul of the overview/selected item UI?

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#118 - 2012-10-10 21:14:18 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
HxChippiewill wrote:
The hit icon opacity thing sounds very cool and is a very nice visual indicator. However my concern is that it'll effectively display individual shots rather than the rate of incoming damage from a target. What I would suggest is that you have a value for opacity that diminishes at a certain rate (Whether it's linear, exponential or whatever isn't exactly important) and on each hit the value is topped up a little bit depending on the damage of the hit (Still the ratio of damage to HP) so that you can still see each individual shot come in as the opacity suddenly increases. So now a missile volley (Massive value) and turret shots (loads of little values) are now visibly comparable as you now have in a way a display of average incoming damage rather than what the last shot was like which isn't very helpful when you're trying to decide whether a missile boat or a turret boat is dealing more damage.

We did actually try that first... but then the big shots got completely lost.


I'd argue big individual shots don't matter that much in relation to incoming DPS

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2012-10-10 21:15:45 UTC
[quote=Dersen Lowery]I'm not sure I understand why color-coding the bars is so important. Shield is the one that turns red first; armor is the one that turns red second; hull is the one that turns red last. The important summary is "how red is the circle?/quote]
This is what I think... you will need to see it once in action and then you'll just know.
I'm looking forward to seeing how people actually experience it on the test server... if people will be confused or just understand it right away.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2012-10-10 21:16:04 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't get why the hit animation has to be so complicated. Make it blink when they fire. Don't need a mathematical equation for opacity, which nobody's going to be paying much attention to anyway.

As far as the animation goes when you're establishing target lock, you could make it like a timer that goes all the way around the circle. So if it takes 12 seconds to lock a ship, the circle takes 12 seconds to fill up


The hit animation is to allow you to see at a glance who's doing some serious damage to you. I've been noobing in missions and have no idea who is really the one damaging me, but if I had these indicators, it would help me find that guy and shoot him down!

The targeting animation is like that... the 1/3 of a circle you see on the Raven in the "after" screenshot is the targeting animation... I'm sorry, I didn't notice until now that it kind of looks like it's the shield.

Alright. I have no real problem with the targeting animation, but I see how it can be useful.

As for the latter, I did think it was the shield, but since that is the targeting animation then all I have to say is "excellent".

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