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For all the FW peeps: "Diagonal plexing" - working as intended?

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Ty Delaney
Gambit Roulette
#41 - 2012-10-09 15:11:15 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Squatdog wrote:
.....

They are in militia just not one of the locals .. CCP still haven't managed to make the ally militias show as such in local channel.

Another argument against cross-faction plexing: It removes a major balancing tool as there is no consequence to steamrolling at home as one can merely send excess farm hands abroad to rake in the cash.


Came here to say this. As a Minmatar militia member, there's no real downside to the lack of viable plexing targets in my 'home' warzone -- if I want to offensively plex, I fly 8 jumps to the other warzone, where enemy systems abound.

It shouldn't be that way. I think diagonal plexing should pay, yes, but it shouldn't pay full price -- enforcing some kind of payout reduction for diagonal plexing would introduce diminishing returns to any militia that's really dominating their home territory.

Diminishing returns is a theme in the upcoming FW changes, and it should carry to all aspects of FW play.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#42 - 2012-10-09 15:21:27 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
.. CCP created LP's from plexing as a way of allowing FW participants to pay for their PVP and not go bankrupt....

Your tinfoil is weak. Look at the timeline and the way it was pushed through, it screams to the heavens that it was done solely to satisfy null's craving for cheap affordable bling.


Bah, if you're gonna tinfoil, go big or go home. Cool I will match Trinkets (accurate) assessment about the reason behind LP for plexing and Veshta's tinfoil about this all being for 0.0 (really?) and raise you both with the proposition that this was all done to quickly vent isk from an overinflated economy ("OOPS! Was that the effect Inferno had? Why, what a pleasant side effect!").

The reality is that LP-for-plexing was arguably the single most common suggestion originating from within the Faction Warfare community for years and years leading up to CCP finally sitting down to overhaul the system. Everyone asked for it not only as a carrot to hang around in the plexes, but as a way to earn isk while PvPing (this was assuming of course that plexes were overhauled either first, or at the same time) so that FW pilots didnt have to take time away from pew to go run missions. Whatever nefarious scheme anyone thinks took place here, the bottom line is that CCP has given us exactly what we asked for, albeit in a wonky order that opened the door for a brief (un?)intentional "farmville" period between expansions.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2012-10-09 16:25:57 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Bah, if you're gonna tinfoil, go big or go home. Cool I will match Trinkets (accurate) assessment about the reason behind LP for plexing and Veshta's tinfoil about this all being for 0.0 (really?) and raise you both with the proposition that this was all done to quickly vent isk from an overinflated economy ("OOPS! Was that the effect Inferno had? Why, what a pleasant side effect!")....

It is a good theory, you happen to have numbers to support that is the effect it had?

As a consumer all I can say is that everything is more expensive now then at any other point in recollected history. Everything from minerals to Plex has been increasing at break-neck speed .. so if swamping the market in LP (screwing non-farmers over in the process by the way) was to siphon off ISK then the plan, from where I am sitting, failed miserably.

PS: 9-12 months is not a brief period .. makes up ~20% of the entirety of FW existence and some 10% of Eve's existence and we have heard nada official to tell us that things will be better .. just different .. then again the hole they dug with Inferno was so deep that any change will be better so I guess that is something.
PPS: The above 'PS' was a nudge to you to nudge CCP to give us some updates! Surely Ytterbium♥Fozzie can't be the only ones working up north Big smile
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-10-09 23:43:06 UTC
Diagonal Plexing doesn't matter, what matters is how players can go in with a t1 frig that is a few days old and make 600mil an hour. If you stopped diagonal plexing all that would happen is the farmers would just join the appropriate militia.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Alex Carmel
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#45 - 2012-10-10 19:47:50 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Confirming I fly a t2 rigged pilgrim with a 120M isk faction scram and loki boosts to catch unarmed slashers. It's the only practical way to get them, if you consider doing that practical. Don't know of anyone else doing it but I doubt I'm the only one.

Edit: oh yeah, back to the topic at hand. I have no problem with cross plexing/fighting. The problem is just how broken FW is in regards to WZ control, plexes and to a lesser extent missions.


Here's a cheap alternative... Logon trap from 45km from the button in a slasher with (t2) long point, mwd, web and a neut. Fit fusion.

Most of those incursii have no stabs since the 4th low is a cap or tank mod.

Bonus point if you have a neut alt use dscan to spot when they return.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#46 - 2012-10-13 04:30:31 UTC
it does not allow an underdog militia to come back and its plain ********

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#47 - 2012-10-15 08:51:58 UTC
As suggested, if the NPC's actually scramble or disrupt inside the Plex's, you achieve a couple of things. First you make sure solo frigates have to actually... you know... kill the ships inside the plex to clear it.

Secondly, it allows any wandering defenders a chance to catch any solo farmers deep in their factions territory (at present its basically impossible)

Thirdly, it encourages team work in faction warfare, instead of solo bots/players farming etc.

It stops frigates from running larger plex sites than they should really be able to farm.

Lastly, it focuses faction warfare on PvP in a subtle, but distinct way.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-10-22 03:56:22 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
.. CCP created LP's from plexing as a way of allowing FW participants to pay for their PVP and not go bankrupt....

Your tinfoil is weak. Look at the timeline and the way it was pushed through, it screams to the heavens that it was done solely to satisfy null's craving for cheap affordable bling.


Bah, if you're gonna tinfoil, go big or go home. Cool I will match Trinkets (accurate) assessment about the reason behind LP for plexing and Veshta's tinfoil about this all being for 0.0 (really?) and raise you both with the proposition that this was all done to quickly vent isk from an overinflated economy ("OOPS! Was that the effect Inferno had? Why, what a pleasant side effect!").

The reality is that LP-for-plexing was arguably the single most common suggestion originating from within the Faction Warfare community for years and years leading up to CCP finally sitting down to overhaul the system. Everyone asked for it not only as a carrot to hang around in the plexes, but as a way to earn isk while PvPing (this was assuming of course that plexes were overhauled either first, or at the same time) so that FW pilots didnt have to take time away from pew to go run missions. Whatever nefarious scheme anyone thinks took place here, the bottom line is that CCP has given us exactly what we asked for, albeit in a wonky order that opened the door for a brief (un?)intentional "farmville" period between expansions.


Players also asked for LP from FW kills, which CCP managed to massively screw up to the point where they had to roll back the hundreds of billions that the Goons exploited of this broken game mechanic.

Exactly the same has happened with the retardedly broken plexing mechanics, with unarmed T1 farming alts (whose main's often AREN'T EVEN IN MILITIA) creaming literally TRILLIONS of Isk between them every month. From literally doing nothing aside from going semi-AFK in plexes.
Mastalin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-10-22 04:16:19 UTC
Personally I would like to see the link between the allied factions increased, with the ability to see your allies map and their situation, and allies chat channel would be cool to
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#50 - 2012-10-27 22:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Squatdog wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
.. CCP created LP's from plexing as a way of allowing FW participants to pay for their PVP and not go bankrupt....

Your tinfoil is weak. Look at the timeline and the way it was pushed through, it screams to the heavens that it was done solely to satisfy null's craving for cheap affordable bling.


Bah, if you're gonna tinfoil, go big or go home. Cool I will match Trinkets (accurate) assessment about the reason behind LP for plexing and Veshta's tinfoil about this all being for 0.0 (really?) and raise you both with the proposition that this was all done to quickly vent isk from an overinflated economy ("OOPS! Was that the effect Inferno had? Why, what a pleasant side effect!").

The reality is that LP-for-plexing was arguably the single most common suggestion originating from within the Faction Warfare community for years and years leading up to CCP finally sitting down to overhaul the system. Everyone asked for it not only as a carrot to hang around in the plexes, but as a way to earn isk while PvPing (this was assuming of course that plexes were overhauled either first, or at the same time) so that FW pilots didnt have to take time away from pew to go run missions. Whatever nefarious scheme anyone thinks took place here, the bottom line is that CCP has given us exactly what we asked for, albeit in a wonky order that opened the door for a brief (un?)intentional "farmville" period between expansions.


Players also asked for LP from FW kills, which CCP managed to massively screw up to the point where they had to roll back the hundreds of billions that the Goons exploited of this broken game mechanic.

Exactly the same has happened with the retardedly broken plexing mechanics, with unarmed T1 farming alts (whose main's often AREN'T EVEN IN MILITIA) creaming literally TRILLIONS of Isk between them every month. From literally doing nothing aside from going semi-AFK in plexes.


Both of which have been fixed. The first directly, the second in the first major iteration... with more tightening of the mechanics to come shortly.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#51 - 2012-10-27 22:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
As a consumer all I can say is that everything is more expensive now then at any other point in recollected history.


Your long term memory appears to be faulty, and your short term memory is questionable.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#52 - 2012-10-27 22:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mastalin wrote:
Personally I would like to see the link between the allied factions increased, with the ability to see your allies map and their situation, and allies chat channel would be cool to

This.

The main problem with this right now is a lack of situational awareness concerning your allies.

Faction Warfare info about your allies situation should be just as easy to view as your own, perhaps on a different tab, including the map functionality.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mastalin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-11-05 15:44:38 UTC
While I can agree with everyones comments about the "farmville" side of plexing.

I still think that you don't want to alienate the casual pvper's of FW, anything that you can do to increase accessibility to either warzone is good, and will increase players

If I feel like cruising out for a fight, and the min/amarr warzone is a bit quiet, it would be great to be able to know whats happening over in Gallenete/Caldari, and be able to join one of their fleet(i.e. see their fleet invites).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#54 - 2012-11-05 16:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
If the system ends up where there are 2 winning factions diagonal plexing may be the only thing that keeps the fighting on all fronts.

For example, for the sake of arguement lets assume, Caldari and Minmatar start to dominate and hit tier 5 and put Gallente and Amarr at tier 1. And lets just assume this sort of settles in, and amarr and gallente have difficulty getting out of their rut.

Well if there is no diagonal plexing then the war will basically end. If there is diagonal plexing then the players who like to fight for the gallente in the caldari/gallente space can simply fly for minmatar and keep the fight going. Likewise those who flew for amarr could simply join Caldari and continue to fight in the amarr/minmatar space. So it would end up being only 2 militias but there would still be fighting.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-11-06 11:06:16 UTC
Getting rid of diagonal plexing entirely - not just the LP rewards, but the actual ability to run diagonal plexes - would definitely force militias to concentrate on their own space, and it would close up a lot of loopholes that all sides have exploited at some point in the past. It wouldn't make all that much sense, though... it's complicated.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#56 - 2012-11-15 17:29:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Getting rid of diagonal plexing entirely - not just the LP rewards, but the actual ability to run diagonal plexes - would definitely force militias to concentrate on their own space, and it would close up a lot of loopholes that all sides have exploited at some point in the past. It wouldn't make all that much sense, though... it's complicated.

The "kill all rats" requirement severely nerfed the adverse effects of diagonal plexing (afk farmers blobbing the other side's warzone). +1 CCP.

The incomplete connection between allies is great, IMO, simply because it adds potential risk and drama to the game. You want to know what's happening in Minmatar space? Go live there for a week and develop some diplomatic and personal connections with them.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#57 - 2012-11-16 20:13:09 UTC
Diagonal LP for pew pew, none for plexing.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#58 - 2012-12-04 10:42:15 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.
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