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CCP kicking you to the side of the road?
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Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#81 - 2012-10-10 18:35:42 UTC
So your saying "Griefing" Is a profession?

last time I checked tears didn't pay for your shiny new ship when you get concorded.
Its pointless and a waste of time that just annoys the other player. And if the other player
is smart he wont fall into a griefers trap. There is a reason for low and null sec, so barbarians
can beat each other over the head.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-10-10 18:36:37 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
According to the various Dev blogs a considerable number of play styles are being severely curtailed or eliminated by CCP in the up coming expansion -- can flipper, baiter of can flippers, ganking for profit, solo small ship (e.g. sb) hunting of missioners, etc. . . If you were one of the players who participated in these play styles what do you expect to be doing after the update? Will you move to low/null? Or maybe kick ccp/eve to the side of the road and play mechwarrior online, or some other game?

I, for one, used to be heavily in to can flipping and baiting competing can flippers. I also greatly enjoyed hunting missioners in small ships - so this expansion hits my personal playstyle right where it hurts. In response I moved to low sec. But the sec loss/grind there is annoying. I tried the null thing and its blob/bubble play is not for me. So while I expect I will continue playing eve, I anticipate lowering my game time in favor of other games (XCOM). So what about you guys out there?



What is this Mech Warrior you speak about and how do I signup?

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#83 - 2012-10-10 19:24:41 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
According to the various Dev blogs a considerable number of play styles are being severely curtailed or eliminated by CCP in the up coming expansion -- can flipper, baiter of can flippers, ganking for profit, solo small ship (e.g. sb) hunting of missioners, etc. . . If you were one of the players who participated in these play styles what do you expect to be doing after the update? Will you move to low/null? Or maybe kick ccp/eve to the side of the road and play mechwarrior online, or some other game?

I, for one, used to be heavily in to can flipping and baiting competing can flippers. I also greatly enjoyed hunting missioners in small ships - so this expansion hits my personal playstyle right where it hurts. In response I moved to low sec. But the sec loss/grind there is annoying. I tried the null thing and its blob/bubble play is not for me. So while I expect I will continue playing eve, I anticipate lowering my game time in favor of other games (XCOM). So what about you guys out there?



What is this Mech Warrior you speak about and how do I signup?


see
http://mwomercs.com/

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Doddy
Excidium.
#84 - 2012-10-10 19:25:13 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah but the situation mentioned is 1v1, and 1v1 it is very hard to kill a target being repped by a logi, and thanks to asbs etc logis can tank 1 ship long enough to deagress if they get attacked. If you go back to shooting the other guy the logi can start repping again, so it all comes down to managing timers (and asb reload).


I'll have to check again, but I believe the logi inherets the same type of timer as his repping target, so if the target is shootable by all so too will be the logi.


Target isn't necessarily shootable by all..... even then its a bit much to hope random passers by will help out but wouldn't have shot the original target.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#85 - 2012-10-10 20:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
baltec1 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


I'll have to check again, but I believe the logi inherets the same type of timer as his repping target, so if the target is shootable by all so too will be the logi.


Correct.


This is Correct, but ignores the vice-versa scenario... which is broken.

It is correct that a Logi inherits the same flags as his repping target, and possibly more.

If a neutral logi reps a player with a PvP flag (this will change to a Weapons flag soon, because the PvP flag is obnoxiously exploitable), they become a Suspect and shootable by all.

If a logi reps a Suspect or Criminal (which is shootable by ALL), it becomes a Suspect or Criminal (and shootable by all).

However, you can still get free logistics from corp, militia, and alliance mates. If a logi reps a Corp/Alliance/Militia member, they will inherit any flags they have, but they will NOT inherit any limited engagement stuffs. So, if your corp mate is shooting a Suspect, you can rep that corp mate, and the Suspect CANNOT shoot you (assuming your corp mate doesn't do something stupid like go Suspect).
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#86 - 2012-10-10 20:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Kult Altol wrote:
So your saying "Griefing" Is a profession?

last time I checked tears didn't pay for your shiny new ship when you get concorded.
Its pointless and a waste of time that just annoys the other player. And if the other player
is smart he wont fall into a griefers trap. There is a reason for low and null sec, so barbarians
can beat each other over the head.

Actually, griefing is against the EULA.

However, ganking used to be a profitable profession just like any other, with risk and reward.

So yes, it paid for the ships that got CONCORDED. You're right.

You're also correct that if players use proper precaution and strategy, they won't get caught by gankers.

CCP wasn't happy with this though, because a large group of players displayed incredible solidarity in their total unwillingness to adapt and take precaution.

While I appreciate your sentiments for null and low-secs, high-sec is also subject to nonconsensual PVP.

That does not make it grief play. Quite the opposite, it entirely justifies it within the context of the game.

I'm glad we could clear this up.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Doddy
Excidium.
#87 - 2012-10-10 20:30:43 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


I'll have to check again, but I believe the logi inherets the same type of timer as his repping target, so if the target is shootable by all so too will be the logi.


Correct.


This is Correct, but ignores the vice-versa scenario... which is broken.

It is correct that a Logi inherits the same flags as his repping target, and possibly more.

If a neutral logi reps a player with a PvP flag (this will change to a Weapons flag soon, because the PvP flag is obnoxiously exploitable), they become a Suspect and shootable by all.

If a logi reps a Suspect or Criminal (which is shootable by ALL), it becomes a Suspect or Criminal (and shootable by all).

However, you can still get free logistics from corp, militia, and alliance mates. If a logi reps a Corp/Alliance/Militia member, they will inherit any flags they have, but they will NOT inherit any limited engagement stuffs. So, if your corp mate is shooting a Suspect, you can rep that corp mate, and the Suspect CANNOT shoot you (assuming your corp mate doesn't do something stupid like go Suspect).


um no, from the dev blog

An LE is between a pair of characters. (Always characters, not corps, alliances, factions or anything else). An LE gives each party a legal right to attack the other, without triggering any Legal flag. An LE is ACTIVE as long as offensive actions are on-going. Once offensive acts have stopped, it will begin to count down. Resuming hostilities will reset the timer. If the timer expires (probably 15 minutes but still TBC) then the LE is ended. An LE is created when character A attacks character B, and where B is globally-attackable due to being a Suspect, Criminal or Outlaw. This then allows B to defend himself against A. Like Criminal and Suspect flags, An LE is only effective in empire space. Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#88 - 2012-10-10 20:35:58 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
So your saying "Griefing" Is a profession?

last time I checked tears didn't pay for your shiny new ship when you get concorded.
Its pointless and a waste of time that just annoys the other player. And if the other player
is smart he wont fall into a griefers trap. There is a reason for low and null sec, so barbarians
can beat each other over the head.


Believe it or not, blowing up ships can be quite profitable....

See Freighter Ganking.... (losing 500m to scoop 5b in loot is very profitable)
See Old-School Exhumer ganking.... (losing a 2m destroyer to scoop 10m in modules was profitable)
See Mission Baiting.... (losing the occasional frigate to scoop mission runner bling is very profitable)
See Mission Boat Ganking (losing 200m to scoop officer modules dropping from a CNR is very profitable)


If the other players were smart.... They wouldn't carry 10+b in goods in your freighter. They would officer fit their CNR to kill lvl 4 mission rats. They wouldn't tank their 200m isk hulk with only a civilian shield booster. They wouldn't shoot that can flipper or ninja salvagers that steals from them....

Guess what... in general, EvE is full of not-so-smart marks!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#89 - 2012-10-10 20:40:31 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


I'll have to check again, but I believe the logi inherets the same type of timer as his repping target, so if the target is shootable by all so too will be the logi.


Correct.


This is Correct, but ignores the vice-versa scenario... which is broken.

It is correct that a Logi inherits the same flags as his repping target, and possibly more.

If a neutral logi reps a player with a PvP flag (this will change to a Weapons flag soon, because the PvP flag is obnoxiously exploitable), they become a Suspect and shootable by all.

If a logi reps a Suspect or Criminal (which is shootable by ALL), it becomes a Suspect or Criminal (and shootable by all).

However, you can still get free logistics from corp, militia, and alliance mates. If a logi reps a Corp/Alliance/Militia member, they will inherit any flags they have, but they will NOT inherit any limited engagement stuffs. So, if your corp mate is shooting a Suspect, you can rep that corp mate, and the Suspect CANNOT shoot you (assuming your corp mate doesn't do something stupid like go Suspect).


um no, from the dev blog

An LE is between a pair of characters. (Always characters, not corps, alliances, factions or anything else). An LE gives each party a legal right to attack the other, without triggering any Legal flag. An LE is ACTIVE as long as offensive actions are on-going. Once offensive acts have stopped, it will begin to count down. Resuming hostilities will reset the timer. If the timer expires (probably 15 minutes but still TBC) then the LE is ended. An LE is created when character A attacks character B, and where B is globally-attackable due to being a Suspect, Criminal or Outlaw. This then allows B to defend himself against A. Like Criminal and Suspect flags, An LE is only effective in empire space. Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves.


Please see the dev comment:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec
Doddy
Excidium.
#90 - 2012-10-10 20:44:26 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Please see the dev comment:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec



It says the opposite of what you said. If the logi inherits the p flag from the repeee then the suspect can shoot it. You do know what the p flag is?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#91 - 2012-10-10 20:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Doddy wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Please see the dev comment:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec



It says the opposite of what you said. If the logi inherits the p flag from the repeee then the suspect can shoot it. You do know what the p flag is?


The PvP flag refers to your Log-Off Timer. It does NOT refer to whether you can legally shoot another player.

I'll link it ass soon as the site comes back up.

*edit*
Quote:
PVP Flag: This flag is activated when one player uses offensive modules against another. The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag. Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space.


The ONLY way the Suspect can shoot the logi is if it's in a Limited Engagement with the logi (which it wont be unless the logi shots it), is if the Logi gains a suspect / criminal flag, or if the logi is a already valid target (wardec, killrights, corp mate).
Doddy
Excidium.
#92 - 2012-10-10 21:07:06 UTC
ok, thats ********
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#93 - 2012-10-10 21:07:29 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
So your saying "Griefing" Is a profession?

last time I checked tears didn't pay for your shiny new ship when you get concorded.
Its pointless and a waste of time that just annoys the other player. And if the other player
is smart he wont fall into a griefers trap. There is a reason for low and null sec, so barbarians
can beat each other over the head.


Believe it or not, blowing up ships can be quite profitable....

See Freighter Ganking.... (losing 500m to scoop 5b in loot is very profitable)
See Old-School Exhumer ganking.... (losing a 2m destroyer to scoop 10m in modules was profitable)
See Mission Baiting.... (losing the occasional frigate to scoop mission runner bling is very profitable)
See Mission Boat Ganking (losing 200m to scoop officer modules dropping from a CNR is very profitable)


If the other players were smart.... They wouldn't carry 10+b in goods in your freighter. They would officer fit their CNR to kill lvl 4 mission rats. They wouldn't tank their 200m isk hulk with only a civilian shield booster. They wouldn't shoot that can flipper or ninja salvagers that steals from them....

Guess what... in general, EvE is full of not-so-smart marks!

Need to nerf ganking more then.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#94 - 2012-10-10 21:24:02 UTC
Doddy wrote:
ok, thats ********


Go Post in the Dev Blog Comments thread:

Unassailable Logistics is crap... and should NOT be implemented....


I'd personally prefer the leave it:

Quote:
Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag.


No exceptions.... This means using logistics in Highsec PvP is extremely dangerous, because anytime your opponent gets a Suspect flag, all your Logistics get a Suspect flag too!!!!



usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-10-10 23:33:02 UTC
actually it will be awesome, steal a can and anyone can attack you so if you want a fight all you have to do is steal someones can.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#96 - 2012-10-11 00:22:51 UTC
usrevenge wrote:
actually it will be awesome, steal a can and anyone can attack you so if you want a fight all you have to do is steal someones can.


While its a good thing to make fights easier to find... its a bad thing if they are extremely unbalanced.

People typically don't willingly partake in extremely unbalanced PvP....
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-10-11 01:16:14 UTC
I swear sometimes people here have in-game tinfoil hats.

It's almost like "Aliens!" but for the Goonswarm.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#98 - 2012-10-11 01:18:14 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
usrevenge wrote:
actually it will be awesome, steal a can and anyone can attack you so if you want a fight all you have to do is steal someones can.

While its a good thing to make fights easier to find... its a bad thing if they are extremely unbalanced.

People typically don't willingly partake in extremely unbalanced PvP....

No, they don't.

That's why hotdropping titans is so great !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herr Hammer Draken
#99 - 2012-10-11 01:27:59 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
So your saying "Griefing" Is a profession?

last time I checked tears didn't pay for your shiny new ship when you get concorded.
Its pointless and a waste of time that just annoys the other player. And if the other player
is smart he wont fall into a griefers trap. There is a reason for low and null sec, so barbarians
can beat each other over the head.

Actually, griefing is against the EULA.

However, ganking used to be a profitable profession just like any other, with risk and reward.

So yes, it paid for the ships that got CONCORDED. You're right.

You're also correct that if players use proper precaution and strategy, they won't get caught by gankers.

CCP wasn't happy with this though, because a large group of players displayed incredible solidarity in their total unwillingness to adapt and take precaution.

While I appreciate your sentiments for null and low-secs, high-sec is also subject to nonconsensual PVP.

That does not make it grief play. Quite the opposite, it entirely justifies it within the context of the game.

I'm glad we could clear this up.


Interesting that you just choose to overlook the statement that CCP made that said ganking was never intended to be profitable. That was the reason given from CCP as to why they rebalanced the mining barges.

But you like to change that and make this about what you think it should be. So you did not clear anything up just made it muddier which is par for the course in the forums. Mis information so often and repeatedly until it becomes forum fact.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Seniae 0n3
#100 - 2012-10-11 01:39:51 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
usrevenge wrote:
actually it will be awesome, steal a can and anyone can attack you so if you want a fight all you have to do is steal someones can.


While its a good thing to make fights easier to find... its a bad thing if they are extremely unbalanced.

People typically don't willingly partake in extremely unbalanced PvP....



Which serves it purpose ... don't steal in hisec or face the bigger guy. Let hisec-ers solve it themselves and ditch Concord for that part. Stealing is bad bad bad!! Thieves need their ass whooped! :)