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Proposal: Higher Penalties for High Security Space Attacks (Ganks)

First post
Author
Grayko
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-17 20:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Grayko
High Security Systems aren't secure at all.

Myslef and friends of mine were recently attacked and Ganked in High Security Systems, 0.6 and 0.8 systems,

I propse that there be more penalties for a player with low or Negative standing. (-5.0 and lower), when they enter high Security Space.

Concord police need to be more aggressive in their pursuit of these criminals,

Also if there are any unprovoked aggression (Gank), the criminals should lose more than their ships. Concord should be given the permissions to POD kill these criminals.

There is also an old corp trying to re-make a name for themselves. they destroyed (Ganked) our Hulks and then they sent us a email telling us, if we don't pay for them not to kill us. they will not stop.

Email is here :

Subject: Miner Amnesty
From: Skeith Oumis (Goonwaffe A.K.A. Goonswarm)
Sent:
To:

Hello!

As the financial director behind Goonwaffe/TEST's current operations in gallente high sec, I thought you might be interested in our Amnesty program for miners. We're currently extending this to a small group of miners to test the waters and see how things go.

A full outline of the program can be found at http://goonfleet.net/miners/

The short and sweet version is that, for a small fee, we can have your character(s) added to our global no kill list. This would exclude you from our suicide operations in ice mining, allowing you to take advantage of current oxy tope prices.

We intend to keep this as a very small group, and slots are first come first serve. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
______________________________________________________________________________________________


This type of game play is hard on all of us that cannot afford to buy PLEX's and support our loses, it took me about a month of

mining and selling my minerals to come up with the money to buy and outfit a HULK. The lose of a 200 MIL ship cause a

combat pilot can come in and destroy the ship before Concord responds, can be negative on a person's gaming experience.

Not to mention Very Frustrating as well, being set back 1 month's hard work, to satisfy a players need to cause others grief.

I am an Industry player, I've played many games, and ALL the games I have played they have had a Separation between

players that want PvP and those who don't. I have no interest in PvP. and I feel that these constant attacks are an insult to my

game play, and a waste of my time. I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. Remember CCP's CEO's promise to fix the areas

that the players want fixed..

Overall this is a negative experience that can ultimately cause people to lose interest in the game and cancel their accounts.

Thank you,

Grayko
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-17 20:51:20 UTC
If you had bothered to research and do a little reading.

You'd find this is a complete and utter waste of time.

Welcome to EVE Online.

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Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-17 21:02:29 UTC
I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. I realize it can be hard on some to replace ships lost in belts, and don't have the means to buy plex (I don't either, real life finances are pretty tight.) To that end, I think you should give some serious thought to taking Mr. Oumis up on his kind offer. You wouldn't want to lose ANOTHER hulk, would you?

If you have any questions, feel free to contact spookydonut in game, and he can assist you.
Grayko
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-17 21:09:29 UTC

this is a post to try and make this game a better experience for all High Sec pilots.

if I can’t afford to replace my ship. How do you think I have the money (250 MIL ISK) to throw away ??

I have no interest in paying your Corp any money of any kind.


Vultures is all you are.!!

I wish you nothing but Failure in your pursuit of personal pleasure at other's expense.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-17 21:19:23 UTC
I have to say...I think the "hate goon" atitude is seriously misguided and mob related.

I'm increasindly finding it hard to hate goons based on the reasons people give.

Oh sure what they do is not necessarily nice...but then I've seen worse and most of which are not Goons.

Go figure.

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Grayko
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-10-17 21:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Grayko
"Hate-Goon" Attitude?

I have hate towards anyone that gets pleasure out of causing others grief.

I feel the same way towards others that do this type of game play.

others have "Ganked" me, and I feel the same way towards them. this is NOT a Goons Bashing Thread.

I am getting tired of the so called "High Sec" space being called "Secure" when CCP allows this type of Negative game play to go on.

The only penalty they offer is the destruction of throw away ship.. WOW !!

How about making them pay by destroying their POD and all the implants in their heads!

it's the whole Human Nature and Breeding negativity I cannot stand. I could care less what Goons do.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2011-10-17 21:48:22 UTC
This has to be a troll thread, no one can be this naive.
Grayko
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-10-17 21:53:46 UTC
Naive?

Think about what you are trying to say...

again, all I am trying to do here is fix a broken system, Hgih Sec space is only a fraction of the whole EVE universe, if you want PvP. I'm sure there are alot of people that would LOVE to entertain you...

Go!! have fun !!!

Leave the people that don't want anything to do with PvP alone !!
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2011-10-17 21:56:12 UTC
Grayko wrote:
Naive?

Think about what you are trying to say...

again, all I am trying to do here is fix a broken system, Hgih Sec space is only a fraction of the whole EVE universe, if you want PvP. I'm sure there are alot of people that would LOVE to entertain you...

Go!! have fun !!!

Leave the people that don't want anything to do with PvP alone !!


Yes Naive, the warning on the box, since day one, has always been the same. Hi-sec is safer but not safe.

So why do you think you are such a special snowflake not to play by the same rules and mechanics as everyone else?


Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2011-10-17 22:01:14 UTC

A couple of thoughts:

1.) There is no such thing as PvE and PvP areas in EvE. Any time you are undocked, you are vulnerable to attack. Use the market, contracts, etc, and you are vulnerable to the scams and manipulations of other players. There is no shallow end of the pool here, only deep and deeper.

2.) What do you propose as "stricter" punishments? Remember, there needs to be a balance between the risks you engage in and the rewards you can earn.
-- Transferable killrights that you can sell/give to another player?
-- Quicker response times in systems?
-- Harsher sec status penalties?
-- Prevention of the loss of your ship?

3.) Why should a hulk pilot be able to mine an asteroid belt in 0.5 space without being molested?? Are there other options available to you, that utilize teamwork or less efficient, beefier, insurable ships that will greatly decrease your chances of a loss, or even the magnitude of your losses shoudl they happen? Why should a badger auto-piloting across empire be safe from molestation? Are there other options in game, where they can utilize beefier, less efficient ships that can survive an attack, or are there other insurable methods to have your stuff moved so another is taking the risks? Why should a mission runner be safe from being ganked? Are there other options in the game, where they could sacrifice some efficiency to make them much less of a target, and perhaps even harder to kill? Just because you can fly a hulk, and its the most efficient mining vessel, doesn't mean you should be using it in a risky situation. Why should the risk to it in a 0.5 system be lowered/removed?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2011-10-17 22:03:21 UTC
Grayko wrote:

personal pleasure at other's expense.


This describes literally everything you can do in EVE.

How many Serpantis did you slaughter today, you monster?
Grayko
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-10-17 22:04:54 UTC
I am not "Special"

why do you think that Combat type players that have an advantage over others have the right to destroy ( Gank) others with lesser skills?

Without any stif penalty?

All I'm saying is there should be higher penalties for this action.


Like I have said before I'm an industry pilot. with little combat type skills.

Like I have also said, I have no intention on doing any PVP type of game play.

How an I supose to defend myself from a Seasoned combat pilot?

oh well, as I suspected, I am trying to voice an opinion and view of a system I think should be changed. and all you are interested in is Bashing people for their views.
Grayko
Doomheim
#13 - 2011-10-17 22:07:11 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Grayko wrote:

personal pleasure at other's expense.


This describes literally everything you can do in EVE.

How many Serpantis did you slaughter today, you monster?



lol, players?? None..

NPC's ?, several. lol...

But I didn't kill any that didn't attack me first. make them stop attacking me first. I'll leave them alone.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-17 22:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
So let me get this straight grako...you'e been playing a little over a year...maybe two....and your just now figureing out that high sec space isn't as safe as you thought it was?

You do realize these very same mechanics have always been this way *with minor adjustments...and I do mean Minor* and your just now getting around to bitching about it?

Naive is an understatement.

Edit: Ok maybe a ltitle longer than 2 years....but that makes it far worse than expected.

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Grayko
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-17 22:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grayko
this is an alt toon. I stopped playing for almost a year. due to this issue.

I have not just started thinking about this. it has always been an issue of mine.

As to Gizznitt's post. my sugestions are posted in post #1. try reading it some time.

I'm done here, All I'm trying to do is make suggestions on how to make it more balanced.

and Girzznitt. cooperation with more players only means the Ganker's attack in greater numbers. it doesn't fix the issue.

I am not saying stop it totally. just make the penalties harsher.

please see post #1.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2011-10-17 22:29:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Grayko wrote:
High Security Systems aren't secure at all.


They aren't supposed to be.

Grayko wrote:

Myslef and friends of mine were recently attacked and Ganked in High Security Systems, 0.6 and 0.8 systems,


My condolences.

Grayko wrote:

I propse that there be more penalties for a player with low or Negative standing. (-5.0 and lower), when they enter high Security Space.


No.

Grayko wrote:
There is also an old corp trying to re-make a name for themselves. they destroyed (Ganked) our Hulks and then they sent us a email telling us, if we don't pay for them not to kill us. they will not stop.


"Re-make" themselves? This is pretty much the "norm" for Goons. You should have seen what they did the LAST TIME they "invaded" high-sec (it was more damaging, caused more grief, and had much weaker reasoning behind it).

Grayko wrote:

This type of game play is hard on all of us that cannot afford to buy PLEX's and support our loses, it took me about a month of

mining and selling my minerals to come up with the money to buy and outfit a HULK. The lose of a 200 MIL ship cause a

combat pilot can come in and destroy the ship before Concord responds, can be negative on a person's gaming experience.

Not to mention Very Frustrating as well, being set back 1 month's hard work, to satisfy a players need to cause others grief.

I am an Industry player, I've played many games, and ALL the games I have played they have had a Separation between

players that want PvP and those who don't. I have no interest in PvP. and I feel that these constant attacks are an insult to my

game play, and a waste of my time. I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. Remember CCP's CEO's promise to fix the areas

that the players want fixed..

Overall this is a negative experience that can ultimately cause people to lose interest in the game and cancel their accounts.


Here's the thing... EVE is marketed as a single-shard universe where everyone can affect everyone else... for better or worse. Non-consensual PvP (regardless of its form) is the "enabler" of this selling-point as it allows players of any stripe to actively go after those that negatively affect them whenever they feel they need to. And better yet, the rules of the game are flexible enough to allow you to be creative with the solutions to your problems (with the exception of using tactics/things that violate the EULA).

Since your problem is that you are being "attacked" by people who seem to care less about the "consequences" of their actions (which I might also add, raising penalties on will not stop them from doing any of this) the onus is on YOU to alter your tactics and gameplay to preserve your self-interest. Some things I just came up to assist in this include, but are not limited to...
- scanning out Gravametic sites. There are plenty of ores to mine out there and most gankers can't be bothered to bring a probing ship to scan you out. They're after "easy" prey.
- tank your ship out more. Yes, you will mine less... but I think mining less is a small price to pay in order make yourself a less appealing target compared to other people.
- mine in T1 ships. Again, you do mine less and you will not be able to defend yourself at all... but T1 ships give better insurance while T2 ships do not.
- not being AFK and being vigilant. If you see an Orca acting "strangely," local spiking, some strange messages appearing in the center of your screen, and/or couple destroyers on D-Scan... it's time to GTFO.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-10-17 22:42:31 UTC
Grayko wrote:
this is an alt toon. I stopped playing for almost a year. due to this issue.

I have not just started thinking about this. it has always been an issue of mine.

As to Gizznitt's post. my sugestions are posted in post #1. try reading it some time.

I'm done here, All I'm trying to do is make suggestions on how to make it more balanced.

and Girzznitt. cooperation with more players only means the Ganker's attack in greater numbers. it doesn't fix the issue.

I am not saying stop it totally. just make the penalties harsher.

please see post #1.



Your context and presentation say anything but that.

Your obviously ticked off and want punnihsment to be harsher... you know what...the price tag they pay in the first place is plenty bad enough.

Especially if they try to recycle the toons.

And they may not care about penalties like "losing access to high sec".

Don't like it?

Deal with it....by quiting or playing smarter.

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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-10-17 22:48:35 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
I have to say...I think the "hate goon" atitude is seriously misguided and mob related.

I'm increasindly finding it hard to hate goons based on the reasons people give.

Oh sure what they do is not necessarily nice...but then I've seen worse and most of which are not Goons.

Go figure.



there are reasons people hate goons?

i just hate because i feel like giving a reason when i let off a couple volley's in their direction and running away when they spam battleships at me. that, and most of my buddies flew under the DRF banner (not me though) and currently many of them fly under Atlas., but that is pretty much the extent of the reasons i have to hate goons.

that being said, anyone who hates gons because they scam and play "unfair" is just in the wrong part of high-sec and/or needs to actually look at that contract before they accept the "good deal".

at OP: also, how the ehck do you get suicide ganked in HIGH sec? i eman REALLY? your just going to let somebody with a high-profile (read as VERY WEALTHY) null-sec corportaion ticker in a ship class commonly associated with ganking fly within 40km of you?

wanna survive in high-sec? quit babying around in the high-population areas and run some low-sec roams......
Grayko
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-10-17 22:49:21 UTC
Again, a post that doesn't pay attention to the Topic...

I am NOT saying stop it intirely. just make it more even.

how far or equal is it when:

1. I lose a 250 MIL ship.

2. the attacker loses a 100MIL or less ship and flys away in their POD..

let's make High Sec Ganking more challenging to players that want to pick on lesser skilled players..

all of your replys is what I expected, bashing me telling me I'm Naive,, I don't understand the Game Mechanics.

I'm older than most of the people that play EVE.

I understand the mechanics perfictly. that's why I'm posting they should be changed to make it more balanced.

so fell happy about Killing my ships..

other views. the people that Gank in High Sec. probablly can't survive in NULL or LOW sec. so they need to fell BIGGER by picking on the smaller, weaker players. School Yard Bullies..

Enjoy,


Bash me all you want. This is my final post..
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-10-17 22:53:51 UTC
Grayko wrote:
Again, a post that doesn't pay attention to the Topic...

I am NOT saying stop it intirely. just make it more even.

how far or equal is it when:

1. I lose a 250 MIL ship.

2. the attacker loses a 100MIL or less ship and flys away in their POD..

let's make High Sec Ganking more challenging to players that want to pick on lesser skilled players..

all of your replys is what I expected, bashing me telling me I'm Naive,, I don't understand the Game Mechanics.

I'm older than most of the people that play EVE.

I understand the mechanics perfictly. that's why I'm posting they should be changed to make it more balanced.

so fell happy about Killing my ships..

other views. the people that Gank in High Sec. probablly can't survive in NULL or LOW sec. so they need to fell BIGGER by picking on the smaller, weaker players. School Yard Bullies..

Enjoy,


Bash me all you want. This is my final post..




the mechanics are ALREADY BALANCED, YOU are the one that let another unknown player get close to your ship (first mistake), which im guessing was UTANKED (your 2nd mistake), and did nothing before hand to try and escape either i woudl assume.

the aggressor in a gank is already GUARANTEED to lose his ship, you are not, unless you are untanked and fall victim to alpha, but that is a mistake you should have learned to correct after your first week of play. forcing them to lose their pod is overkill, because thats trying to guarantee they lose more then you, you ebing the one who chose to fly an uninsured/untanked expensive ship out of the station docking bay.
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