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Tech 3 Cruisers
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Levithian Jenkins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-10-09 23:51:04 UTC
Hello Everyone

I will start by saying I hope this doesn't turn into a T.T post, but if it does, my apologies. Recently our corp has been fighting off a few people around our wormhole and I noticed what a pain the T3 Cruisers were, so today I decided to mess around on EFT and try to build a ship that can counter the T3 Cruiser but I am having a real hard time, I managed a fit on my cane that can push out ~550 DPS and consulted my Alliance, they spotted out flaws in my tank so I decided to refit it, then i went for a neutralizing Myrmidon and once again consulted them, and the one said that he was passive tanked.

So I asked how much tank they have, He has around 120,000 EHP and can push out 750 DPS. So now I want to ask the community, what is the best way to counter a T3 Cruiser? And now I understand that it's a 1.5 Billion ISK ship, but still, it's only a cruiser!

Is there a non-T3 Cruiser that can atleast give a T3 Cruiser a run for it's money in, say a 1v1?

Now what I have noticed is that you get certain ships that are versatile but will not be as effective at something as a specialized ship, so why is a T3 Cruiser EXTREMELY versatile as well as having an INSANE tank that rivals that of a battleship and an OP dps, With almost no signature radius?!?

Thanks guys for reading through my wall of text, all help appreciated Bear
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-10-10 00:01:14 UTC
Levithian Jenkins wrote:
Hello Everyone


So I asked how much tank they have, He has around 120,000 EHP and can push out 750 DPS. So now I want to ask the community, what is the best way to counter a T3 Cruiser? And now I understand that it's a 1.5 Billion ISK ship, but still, it's only a cruiser!

Thanks guys for reading through my wall of text, all help appreciated Bear


The above will only be true for a Proteus, which has its own challenges, 1 being range to apply that dps, it must be on top of you and the other it needs cap to shoot. So neut and kiting will work, all be it slowly as he does have huge buffer to get through.
Each T3 has strengths and weaknesses and must be dealt with differently.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-10 02:04:00 UTC
All T3s are very weak to neuts and if they dont have the disillusion sequencer subsystems they jam extremely easily too.
It also very very much depends on the way the T3 is fit.
For example, a standard shield cane can very easily kill PVE T3s or cloaky T3s and if they don't have cap boosters, PVP fit T3s too.
Or you can fit out a cynabal and kite a proteus easily, frigs will kill webless legions easily ect.

Bottom line is that they are much more expensive and risky (sp loss and all) than T2s and there's a reason it's tech 3.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Dietrich III
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-10-10 04:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dietrich III
100MN Tengus will align like crap while their afterburners are on. They are tough to kill because they will usually kite at around 80km, have strong sensor strength, are immune to scramblers and warp off before you can get a threatening ship close, but it can be done.

You're going to need a few buddies for this, but it's going to be a very tough group to kill. Skirmish links and Recon V will make this much easier to pull off.

- Lachesis with longpoint (maybe one of the cheaper faction points): 70+km point range
- Huginn with Fed Nay webs and a target painter: 70+km web range
- Curse with medium neuts (while I do link the insane single heavy neut setup it's got a paper-thin tank): 40km neut range
If you think you can pull off the single heavy neut fit you can possibly zap out his capacitor at 70km away, or more with a heavy faction neut.
- Scimitar to keep people alive

And then all you need are some ships that can do decent DPS at range. The Naga and Tornado come to mind as good choices, and they're also shield ships so they're quicker and will get reps from the Scimi.

And there you have it. If you're in a WH with armor bonuses this sucker in the tengu is going to be more screwed than you by using shield ships. Or you can just go with the Oneiros, Arazu and Rapier and armor tank them, although the Pilgrim isn't a good choice because it doesn't get a neut range bonus. If you have a prober and you're coordinated you could give your pilgrim pilot a warpin so he lands on top of the Tengu while it's webbed down.

Just don't try making fits that counter a ship one for one. They may work on paper but usually you can't get the guy pointed to begin with, so he'll just warp away or kite the threat so you can't snag him. Recon ships are especially effective at solving that problem, and the cloaky versions are smart to keep in a wormhole anyways.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2012-10-10 06:18:51 UTC
First thing you need to do is to look at the ship type column in your overview, make a note and then come back.

.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-10-10 07:42:08 UTC
Falcon :)

Once you catch him he can't hurt you anymore .

But Serious, you're not realy complaining that you can stop a billion isk ship with a Cane.

T3's are hard to catch especialy when they're on the initiative.

Though all have their specific weaknesses, depending on what they are fit for.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-10 10:24:51 UTC
Levithian Jenkins wrote:
So I asked how much tank they have, He has around 120,000 EHP and can push out 750 DPS. So now I want to ask the community, what is the best way to counter a T3 Cruiser? And now I understand that it's a 1.5 Billion ISK ship, but still, it's only a cruiser!



actually to me they are a hybrid bc/cruiser. tengu for example is what you get imo when you mix a cerb and drake.

also have to rememeber t3's are more into customization. you have the subs to start and work the rigs in from there to fill holes or enhance the strenght of the subs.

and generally those who fly them will go more for pimp and/or drugs. 100mn tengu, I may spend the isk for some bling even for pvp. Cerb, hell no. Same for high end drugs. Cerb an easier loss to take and not the best choice of frame for casual drug use. Tengu, especially blinged I might do that bit extra to bring it home if need be.


But a great ship flwon by a bad pilot can and will go boom. Take an AT pro in a hac and mix with a noob tard in a t3....be interesting to say the least I would imagine.
Levithian Jenkins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-10-10 11:16:59 UTC

Thanks everyone for the extremely fast replies, I'd swear you guys play Eve forums instead of eve online :D... I will have to read through the replies and fit some ships and test it against some of our T3 pilots.



Zan Shiro wrote:

But a great ship flwon by a bad pilot can and will go boom. Take an AT pro in a hac and mix with a noob tard in a t3....be interesting to say the least I would imagine.


The thing is, you don't get an awful lot of noobs flying T3's in wormholes...


Another issue I am facing is that allot of our fighting takes place on the hole meaning that they T3 pilots can simply jump out. IF they forget to wait their timer though, I will have maximum 4 minutes to kill one, so this once again adds to the troubles. But thank you very much for the help guys, looks like I might have to aim at a small gang to take one of these down.

T3 Cruisers are more OP than CONCORD IMO... :D

Thanks everyone, I will carry on reading so if any of you have more suggestions, I would be grateful Bear
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-10 11:32:23 UTC
T3 - get a T3 to fight one.

Command ships have the DPS, get the T3 tackled and held down, then pummel. If its kiting - get an anti kiting ship.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-10-10 11:34:12 UTC
Levithian Jenkins wrote:
The thing is, you don't get an awful lot of noobs flying T3's in wormholes...


trust me, you do ;)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#11 - 2012-10-10 11:48:02 UTC
get a nano phoon to bump them off the hole and a huginn/vigilant to keep them there
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#12 - 2012-10-10 15:10:19 UTC
T3's are extremely dependent on capacitor for their tank, exploit that.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-10-10 15:19:02 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
T3's are extremely dependent on capacitor for their tank, exploit that.


Wouldn't bet my life on that one

.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#14 - 2012-10-10 15:33:52 UTC
Roime wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
T3's are extremely dependent on capacitor for their tank, exploit that.


Wouldn't bet my life on that one



You're right, I guess that really applies to shield T3's.... Even then, ancilllary shield boosters kinda killed that as well. In any case, most T3 have hardeners which use cap.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#15 - 2012-10-10 15:44:51 UTC
Against a single one a Huginn or Rapier + 2x Schimitar or Basilisks + Point and some midrange DPS equals buttsekks surprise.

Against a gang it's more or less the same recipe, you just have to make sure to bring enough Logis to stick in there until they make a mistake.

Against a fleet, run for the hills. xD Or bring a well tracking sniper fleet to counter them.
Levithian Jenkins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-10-11 10:01:13 UTC
Mishra Ninghor wrote:

Against a fleet, run for the hills. xD Or bring a well tracking sniper fleet to counter them.


Mmmm... I have been looking to fly a sniper Rokh could someone maby link a fit that would be able to hit a T3 Cruiser?

Again thanks for all the comments, alot are very helpful thanks Bear
Levithian Jenkins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-10-11 10:03:32 UTC

Sorry for double posting :D

Maeltstome wrote:
get a nano phoon to bump them off the hole and a huginn/vigilant to keep them there


Could you maybe link me a nanophoon fit please? :)) Bear
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#18 - 2012-10-11 10:31:24 UTC
Bubble both sides of the WH?

You're not supposed to be able to take a 1,5 bil ship in a 100 mil bc.

Use logistics, bring your own t3 fleet etc. etc.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Yorick rashnikov
The Illuminatii
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#19 - 2012-10-11 11:55:00 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Bubble both sides of the WH?

You're not supposed to be able to take a 1,5 bil ship in a 100 mil bc.

Use logistics, bring your own t3 fleet etc. etc.


oh boy, so according to your logic, a pimped out 3bil dramiels sholdn't be taken out by a 80mil cheapo enyo.
balance is not based around cost lad.

anyhow, each different fit have their weakness.

100mn tengus are very prune to webs.
brick proteuses usually sacrifice damage for their tank
etc.

find the weaknes in their fit and use it against them.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#20 - 2012-10-11 13:02:50 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
T3's are extremely dependent on capacitor for their tank, exploit that.


Not really true... Their ability to actively tank with cap boosters is really no different than field commands or hacs except that the t3s generally have far more powerful tanking bonuses than either of those ship types. Further more with the introduction of asbs shield t3s are capable of tanking 7k+ dps with no cap usage at all. The only non t3 ship that can even reall come close to this kind of performance is the sleipnir and while amazingly effect it still falls short in a raw comparison of tank values to similarly fit 2x xlasb t3s. This has to do with the full t2 resistances that t3s get compared to the slightly nerfed t2r esistances of field commands ontop of the stronger 10% per level tanking bonus instead of the commands 7.5%.

Field commands do have an advantage as far as raw gank potential goes however in a baseline comparison they are generally worse compared to the faster, smaller, and less skill intensive t3s. Thank god ccp has shown addmitence to this and nerfs will be underway geared at t3s early to mid next year (**** yeah
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