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Crime & Punishment

 
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Dec Shield - End of the Second Era

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Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#141 - 2012-10-09 11:03:15 UTC
Be careful about overdrawing your targets. You can infect everyone, yes, but at that point anyone who joins Dec Shield "for the kills" is going to be at war with a hundred plus focused empire war corporations and alliances, and that's not exactly something to be taken lightly. Even veritable badass mother-truckers like Vegas would think twice about docking up at their hangouts by that point, lest they're willing to engage thirty-odd ships after coming back out.

Also a quick anecdote: the corporation that gave us the infection is now spamming surrender offers. Instead of being at war with just a few people, they're at war with something like 90 corporations and over a thousand players. Now that they've realized what they've gotten themselves into, they're disbanding.

Still, no matter how you look at it, even if you end up getting hundreds of kills and no losses from Dec Shield, the system is inherently flawed and needs to be fixed.

"Infection." I kind of like the sound of that. Maybe you should get a virus theme going for the ambassador corps.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

VegasMirage
Did he say Jump
WE FORM BL0B
#142 - 2012-10-09 18:41:25 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Kc Decartes wrote:


On topic: What is the benefit of making a war mutual Zerg? Ofc we are at war, so fun and shenanigans will be, and should be had. That is the nature and fun within this game we play. I bs you, you bs me. And so the universe functions as it should.

Kind regards,

-KcD



You didn't read the thread at all did you?
The benefit of him making the war mutual is that now your corporation can never join an alliance ever again. Your war also can now be transferred to anyone at any-time for any length of time. in 24 hours notice you could be at war with any entity, some of which could lay dormant for months or years.

Now you might be thinking, I don't want to join an alliance anyway, and that you don't care that you could be at war with anyone at anytime, and that your corporation is only 5 members strong so disbanding it is no big deal right?

Thats exactly the point Zerg is trying to make. These new rules make deccing anyone in anything aside from a throw-away alt corp completely stupid. The whole point of the changes was to plug exploits, and make war something where you commit, but at the same time, get rid of bullying and 1 man-shows, however ironically the inferno rules encourage just that. Want to dec that corp that keeps can flipping/harrasing/stealing from your missions/griefing you? Want to dec the pirates camping the pipe to 0.0 to your space? Want to dec the people who keep camping your 0.0 entry gate but jump to the safety of highsec everytime your PvPers arrive? Want to dec the rival corporation who is mining your ore or producing the same stuff as you? Want to become a mercenary outfit?

Well good luck with that. Now for almost any ""legitimate"" (Air Quotes needed) reason to go to war other than on your alt in a throwaway corp for lulz has horrendous consequences. Never being able to join an alliance again, and locked permanently in an at war corp with anyone who wants to be at war with you, which could just be a 1 man alt corporation which stays logged off for 5 months, or a guy who is constantly stalking you, you don't know, you will always have to look over your shoulder.

Any alliance gets caught with this now also faces unique problems. All of it's members suffer the same fate, and any member corp that wishes to join said alliance will suffer the same fate, the infected alliance will be the last alliance that any applying corp, or any member corporation ever applies too, if they leave, they can't join another alliance ever again without disbanding.


10/10 very well said

enough analyzing, can we get on with shooting each other in the face now?

no more games... it's real this time!!!

The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#143 - 2012-10-09 20:18:13 UTC
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28049864.jpg

That incredibly evil thing we were experimenting with didn't pan out, so now I can tell you what it was. It seems that corps that get accepted into an alliance have 24hrs in which they can declare outgoing wars. Our thoughts were to get accepted to nullsec alliances, then wardec Dec Shield, set mutual, and then when the corp joined the alliance it would transfer the outgoing wardec to the alliance, and we'd have the alliance trapped.

As you could imagine, this would make the game incredibly unsafe and we'd quickly be able to grief tens of thousands. But alas, the accepted corp just sits in the "Accepted" state until their outgoing war ends
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#144 - 2012-10-09 20:26:58 UTC
Another potentially evil thing you could do is create Dec Shield MkII. Then declare war on Dec Shield MkII with Dec Shield and make the war mutual, and locking anyone who joins Dec Shield for protection into the infected state where they could be hunted for eternity! I'm sure the one war would slip under the rug with the 100+ wars you have going on now. Obviously it would probably slow down the rate of your future infections though when people become aware and don't join dec shield, maybe something for you to ponder if you ever achieve your campaign goal of CCP stating they're fixing it for a parting gift.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#145 - 2012-10-09 20:34:07 UTC
lol that is an amusing idea. I hadn't thought about it because for a while I thought alliances with outgoing wars couldn't recruit corps, but they can. I think half the corps leaving Dec Shield disband anyways because of the crushing weight of 100 wars they take with them.
Aralissia
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2012-10-09 22:37:44 UTC
if something looks too good to be true, it usually is.... so where did I make a mistake?

1) My corp joins Dec Shield (if all else fails, I decc myself with a disposable alt-corp so they accept me)
=> I now have 100+ incoming wars while in Dec Shield
=> alt corp is screwed (but disposable)
2) My corp leaves Dec Shield (You will boot me out once you have alt-corp's war, right?)
=> my corp, now out of your alliance, still has the 100+ incoming wars
3) I make all these wars "mutual" (or only the ones I like)

=> I now have a corporation that has about 100 free eternal wars, I can join my pvp-chars whenever I see fit and have them leave the corp when needed. Without any consequences to those pvp-chars. The pvp-chars can leve-join MyCorp unrestricted?
=> I do not have to pay anything for these wars.
=> Al long as I keep the wars mutual (for free?) the other party can not end those wars.

Of course, I keep an eye on Dec Shield to see if they harvest any 'intersting' new wars, and rejoin them if so :-)

I must have overlooked something somewhere....
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#147 - 2012-10-09 22:43:33 UTC
Aralissia wrote:
if something looks too good to be true, it usually is.... so where did I make a mistake?

1) My corp joins Dec Shield (if all else fails, I decc myself with a disposable alt-corp so they accept me)
=> I now have 100+ incoming wars while in Dec Shield
=> alt corp is screwed (but disposable)
2) My corp leaves Dec Shield (You will boot me out once you have alt-corp's war, right?)
=> my corp, now out of your alliance, still has the 100+ incoming wars
3) I make all these wars "mutual" (or only the ones I like)

=> I now have a corporation that has about 100 free eternal wars, I can join my pvp-chars whenever I see fit and have them leave the corp when needed. Without any consequences to those pvp-chars. The pvp-chars can leve-join MyCorp unrestricted?
=> I do not have to pay anything for these wars.
=> Al long as I keep the wars mutual (for free?) the other party can not end those wars.

Of course, I keep an eye on Dec Shield to see if they harvest any 'intersting' new wars, and rejoin them if so :-)

I must have overlooked something somewhere....

Nope, that's exactly correct. Else I wouldn't have written a massive post about how to fix everything that's broken:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1969901

Everyone are more than welcome to our wars. You can pick and choose which ones you want by just unmutualing the ones you don't want. You can always come back and pick them up again by rejoining Dec Shield
Aralissia
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2012-10-09 22:59:29 UTC
this smells like concentrated evil Evil
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#149 - 2012-10-10 00:41:19 UTC
A very painful realization.

Being at war with Dec Shield makes us no longer able to declare new wars.

You might say "sure, you can still declare wars!" Technically, you're right. But each corporation that leaves Dec Shield creates its own war. And each new war that is created raises the price of declaring a new war by 50 million ISK. Today, about seven corporations left Dec Shield. When I went to declare war on a separate target, I noticed that the cost to do so would be 400 million.

This is already in the realm of impossibility to be able to afford. But the worst part is, that if this continues, we will no longer be able to take mercenary jobs, since clients will not pay such high war fees even if we do the actual work for free.

So, Zerg, what this essentially means is that if you cycle about 20 alt corporations in and out of your alliance on a weekly basis, all of Dec Shield's currently-trapped targets will have war bills so expensive that they won't be able to declare new wars.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#150 - 2012-10-10 01:30:59 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
A very painful realization.

Being at war with Dec Shield makes us no longer able to declare new wars.

You might say "sure, you can still declare wars!" Technically, you're right. But each corporation that leaves Dec Shield creates its own war. And each new war that is created raises the price of declaring a new war by 50 million ISK. Today, about seven corporations left Dec Shield. When I went to declare war on a separate target, I noticed that the cost to do so would be 400 million.

This is already in the realm of impossibility to be able to afford. But the worst part is, that if this continues, we will no longer be able to take mercenary jobs, since clients will not pay such high war fees even if we do the actual work for free.

So, Zerg, what this essentially means is that if you cycle about 20 alt corporations in and out of your alliance on a weekly basis, all of Dec Shield's currently-trapped targets will have war bills so expensive that they won't be able to declare new wars.
Time to disband and reform as Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Knitting Company? P

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#151 - 2012-10-10 01:38:07 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
A very painful realization.

Being at war with Dec Shield makes us no longer able to declare new wars.

You might say "sure, you can still declare wars!" Technically, you're right. But each corporation that leaves Dec Shield creates its own war. And each new war that is created raises the price of declaring a new war by 50 million ISK. Today, about seven corporations left Dec Shield. When I went to declare war on a separate target, I noticed that the cost to do so would be 400 million.

This is already in the realm of impossibility to be able to afford. But the worst part is, that if this continues, we will no longer be able to take mercenary jobs, since clients will not pay such high war fees even if we do the actual work for free.

So, Zerg, what this essentially means is that if you cycle about 20 alt corporations in and out of your alliance on a weekly basis, all of Dec Shield's currently-trapped targets will have war bills so expensive that they won't be able to declare new wars.
Time to disband and reform as Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Knitting Company? P

We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#152 - 2012-10-10 01:53:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.
Down to suicide ganks and infiltrations then? Sad
... until CCP utterly destroys that as well.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#153 - 2012-10-10 02:09:00 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.
Down to suicide ganks and infiltrations then? Sad
... until CCP utterly destroys that as well.

CCP is making it fairly obvious that they no longer want us here. I've always given the devs the benefit of the doubt for all eight of my years here, but all people have their limits. Every year, something gets taken away, and nothing gets added for players like us. Logging in is starting to feel like an exercise in futility, and I'm not simply saying that because I feel burned out. I've been burned out before, but I always came back after short breaks.

This time it's different. This time it feels like I should be looking for a new game as a permanent solution.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

VegasMirage
Did he say Jump
WE FORM BL0B
#154 - 2012-10-10 04:56:32 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.
Down to suicide ganks and infiltrations then? Sad
... until CCP utterly destroys that as well.

CCP is making it fairly obvious that they no longer want us here. I've always given the devs the benefit of the doubt for all eight of my years here, but all people have their limits. Every year, something gets taken away, and nothing gets added for players like us. Logging in is starting to feel like an exercise in futility, and I'm not simply saying that because I feel burned out. I've been burned out before, but I always came back after short breaks.

This time it's different. This time it feels like I should be looking for a new game as a permanent solution.


proof that the best tears in game are merc tears

I hope you're a grown man, cuz I like.. well it's in my signature O_o

no more games... it's real this time!!!

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#155 - 2012-10-10 05:14:43 UTC
VegasMirage wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.
Down to suicide ganks and infiltrations then? Sad
... until CCP utterly destroys that as well.

CCP is making it fairly obvious that they no longer want us here. I've always given the devs the benefit of the doubt for all eight of my years here, but all people have their limits. Every year, something gets taken away, and nothing gets added for players like us. Logging in is starting to feel like an exercise in futility, and I'm not simply saying that because I feel burned out. I've been burned out before, but I always came back after short breaks.

This time it's different. This time it feels like I should be looking for a new game as a permanent solution.


proof that the best tears in game are merc tears

I hope you're a grown man, cuz I like.. well it's in my signature O_o

That must be it. That or I'm just not having fun in the "new" EVE. I don't see a reason for continuing to staunchly defend a game that is no longer true to its founding principles. I once had a similar attitude to yours, the "deal with it or gtfo" kind. I realize now that it's kind of silly because the majority of time it will force you to defend an objectively bad product, though it is pretty useful for troll-baiting. Either way, the features I liked the most have been almost completely removed. High-sec is quickly becoming a shelter, FW is a joke populated almost entirely by farmers, and while wormholes have remained relatively intact, they're not enough to provide a consistent source of action, unless you want to primarily run Sleeper sites. "g0 bck to null n fite otha peepal who wanna fite" isn't really an option for me either.

If you have any constructive advice, I'd sure like to hear it. Otherwise make yourself useful by holding a bucket under my head.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#156 - 2012-10-10 06:11:27 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
In short, it seems they plan to let us continue for quite some time, as they haven't received enough complaints or requests to change things yet.
Proving that incessant complaining is the only reason anything gets fixed, regardless of whether it's actually broken or not.

Who put the goat in there?

Blackhuey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#157 - 2012-10-10 07:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Blackhuey
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Dec_Shield/corporations

4 single player corps? Are you resetting to lighten the war load? Or are PvP corps preferring to leave and only keep the decs they want?

@blackhuey | soundcloud.com/blackhuey

The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#158 - 2012-10-10 14:41:42 UTC
Blackhuey wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Dec_Shield/corporations

4 single player corps? Are you resetting to lighten the war load? Or are PvP corps preferring to leave and only keep the decs they want?

A few of those corps are just placeholders in the alliance to help maintain 51% vote control over executorship. If a corp stays in alliance for more than 7 days than they get a vote over who can run the alliance, and we obviously can't let our enemies seize control of Dec Shield.

So I rotate the pvp corps in/out of the alliance to prevent a buildup which could be used against us. The Dec Shield Ambassador corps are corps that I joined other alliances with and then bring their wars back to Dec Shield
Hannibal Vexor
Lumbar Puncture
#159 - 2012-10-10 21:56:49 UTC
As a member of a corp dec'd by this service or whatever it is... I would like to say LOL!

Dec shield currently has 3 members in it. One member per corp of the 3 corps still in there. We had a sudden spam of corps declaring wars and then surrendering, when checking they were all coming from Dec Shield.

Personally I have no fear of a 3 man alliance. We STARTED the war that brought them in so giving us more targets for free (cause when it goes mutual it is free iirc) is just fine.

If Dec shield PVP'ers (if there are any out there) want some fun... well we live in Eurgrana and play in Geminate.

Hannibal


Yuller
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-10-10 22:51:33 UTC
Sounds like a good idea but someone obviously didn't read the patch details....As a aggressor corp/alliance i find this very funny....Said corp enter with 1 war and then leave with so many they can't even hope to move for 1 week...Thats right the wars go with you for 1 week people.....Read the patch notes..Dec shield started out as a good idea before the patch but now is really useless for a corp that is trying to get out of a dec....Now if your a pvp corp then its party time or a aggressor alliance like we are It just adds up to free targets for 1 week....