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The future of Community and CCL

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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
#681 - 2012-10-09 18:16:13 UTC
So due to the lack of moderation on the forums this evening, can I assume that the existing ISD helpy helpers have already been taken outside and shot?
DarkSim Market
Gangnam Style.
#682 - 2012-10-09 18:29:46 UTC
These forums seriously need quadruple the amount of moderation and PERMANENT bans. You know its bad when a cesspit like kugu has higher quality discussion then the official forum.
Anslo
Scope Works
#683 - 2012-10-09 18:37:53 UTC
Mods are asleep. Post planets.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
#684 - 2012-10-09 20:18:43 UTC
III ZiggyBang
One Point 0
#685 - 2012-10-09 20:27:46 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



we have a problem all right, if you think the community is well served by the volunteers & your attitude you're out of your volcan mind.
Anslo
Scope Works
#686 - 2012-10-09 20:29:55 UTC
III ZiggyBang wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



we have a problem all right, if you think the community is well served by the volunteers & your attitude you're out of your volcan mind.


Can you blame him with all the crap the community gives him? There's a difference between tyrannical devs and devs reacting to an assholish community.

Rules are simple in respect to what Navigator said. You respect employees AND volunteers. No exceptions.

Their forums.

Their rules.

Can't deal with it? GTFO.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#687 - 2012-10-09 20:31:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rats
Anslo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

So where's the stickied thread to replace this as a place to discuss moderation?

I said you wanted to bury the topic, not explode it (as locking or deleting it would).

In the meantime, how has this thread "fulfilled its purpose" of
CCP Navigator wrote:
Finally, the Community team will be locking the myriad of threads on criticizing ISD. You can direct all comments to this thread only as this is the only one we will be following and answering.


Because people like you turned something that could be potentially civilized and engage in constructive criticism instead utilized passive aggressive methods of communication and outright blasting the ISD and CCP.

Did they make mistakes? Yes, sure crap went down and they are trying to rectify it. But then you and others come along just blasting them instead of trying to do something constructive. It's a wonder this doesn't just get locked (and I hope it does).

Discussing forum moderation technically isn't even allowed. This is CCP's forum, not yours. If they have ISD running some parts of it, and the ISD mess up, that isn't your que to just bash CCP and ISD.

If you're going to criticize, do it with civility. Otherwise, kindly shut the **** up. You were previously civil and analytical in your posts here and I agreed with a lot you said, now you're just being an *******. A paragon like example of all that is wrong with the Eve Community.



Oh please ........ you have your head so far up there a**, I'm truly surprised you can see to read let alone write this drivel



Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#688 - 2012-10-09 20:31:53 UTC
III ZiggyBang wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



we have a problem all right, if you think the community is well served by the volunteers & your attitude you're out of your volcan mind.


+1
More hostile tha a drunk college kid. Think you might want to see if that petition system actually works. It doesn't, but maybe you should give it a go.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#689 - 2012-10-09 20:33:44 UTC
Anslo wrote:
III ZiggyBang wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



we have a problem all right, if you think the community is well served by the volunteers & your attitude you're out of your volcan mind.


Can you blame him with all the crap the community gives him? There's a difference between tyrannical devs and devs reacting to an assholish community.

Rules are simple in respect to what Navigator said. You respect employees AND volunteers. No exceptions.

Their forums.

Their rules.

Can't deal with it? GTFO.



CCP Alt ?


I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Reticle
Sight Picture
#690 - 2012-10-09 20:41:49 UTC
DarkSim Market wrote:
These forums seriously need quadruple the amount of moderation and PERMANENT bans. You know its bad when a cesspit like kugu has higher quality discussion then the official forum.

Quadruple? lol. You're an idiot.

I've got a "better" proposal. CCP needs to put out decent documentation on their game so people don't have to visit the goddamn forums for every little question. Since that will kill the majority of posts, that leaves us with intractable arguments (carebears are evil vs. pvp'ers are evil) and arguments about how things "should be," which are actually encouraged by CCP in their Features and Ideas type threads. Kill all the intractable argument threads and that will leave us with only the threads in which CCP solicits our feedback. Which they could also do by way surveys through the client/UI/game.

So, who needs the ******* forums? "Problem" solved.

If you're going to give people a place to talk about stuff, the moderators need to stay out of the way. They should be concerned only with the most egregious violations with stuff like hate speech and go back to blowing ships up rather than pretending they work for CCP.
III ZiggyBang
One Point 0
#691 - 2012-10-09 22:30:43 UTC
I think it's necessary to sticky another post with information on how to petition/email complaints. even if we can no longer discuss moderation anywhere people should have the information available to make formal complaints.
None ofthe Above
#692 - 2012-10-10 02:24:45 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.

The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later.


Oh that is disappointing. The one place on the forums where moderation could be discussed has fulfilled it's purpose? You no longer feel that should be allowed?

Please reconsider.


Almost the first thing I did when I came into the forums was to acknowledge that there needs to be a place to discuss moderation in the general sense rather than specific instances of it. I am very much ready to discuss my own opinions regarding ways of moderation. This thread served that purpose, true, but it currently does more bad than good due to events that negatively affected it over the summer that I myself had nothing to do with because I wasn't a part of the Community Team yet.

Removing the sticky on this thread is not an attempt to bury it or hide it. I can lock and delete for that. I'm trying to convey the point that we know things aren't in their best possible state yet and we are actively working towards getting them there. The seminar will be held this week as I said, and we will continue on from there.

I'm not promising anything because I want to be able to deliver, but I can say that I have a specific goal and I am working towards that.


Thank you. Being able to discuss the moderation policies keeps things from getting out of hand. Even if things do get a little heated sometimes, its been a useful thread. I can understand the desire to not carry all the baggage.

Not sure if the "place" needs to be a pinned thread in eve general, but it suffices. Sub-forum somewhere might work too.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#693 - 2012-10-10 02:47:23 UTC
Quote:
The future of Community and CCL


Hopefully a short one.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#694 - 2012-10-10 07:57:55 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.

The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later.


Oh that is disappointing. The one place on the forums where moderation could be discussed has fulfilled it's purpose? You no longer feel that should be allowed?

Please reconsider.


Almost the first thing I did when I came into the forums was to acknowledge that there needs to be a place to discuss moderation in the general sense rather than specific instances of it. I am very much ready to discuss my own opinions regarding ways of moderation. This thread served that purpose, true, but it currently does more bad than good due to events that negatively affected it over the summer that I myself had nothing to do with because I wasn't a part of the Community Team yet.

Removing the sticky on this thread is not an attempt to bury it or hide it. I can lock and delete for that. I'm trying to convey the point that we know things aren't in their best possible state yet and we are actively working towards getting them there. The seminar will be held this week as I said, and we will continue on from there.

I'm not promising anything because I want to be able to deliver, but I can say that I have a specific goal and I am working towards that.


So why un sticky, this was put here for that reason in the first place. To un sticky this then say your going to create another thread to do the same thing sounds like someone acting first then thinking afterwards....

You should have just left it alone rather than again damaging relations...


Tal


I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#695 - 2012-10-10 10:09:08 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Quote:
The future of Community and CCL


Hopefully a short one.
Thirty odd pages and finally the whole situation summed up in a few words.

Kudos to you.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#696 - 2012-10-11 04:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Corina Jarr wrote:
OlRotGut wrote:
Make posting cost ISK.

Make user rating increase or decrease said ISK fee to post

Allow the author of the thread to delete 'trolling' posts for a cost of ISK.

You suck at posting, your user rating suffers, your posts now cost xx more ISK

Just a thought and I know it could be expanded upon.

dis·sen·sion



Unfortunately, this would be way too open to abuse. Hence why moderation should never be done by the OP (especially as we have OPs that troll too).


This is bunk because the abuse is confined to the OPs 1 thread where as censorship institutionalized is system wide. If I hate carebears and have mod power I can very subtlety censor threads from those who harbor that opinion.

It sounds like an injection of precondition from someone with a fringe opinion looking to justify their existence in everyone's thread.

It's also insulting to the majority of good people who post. Telling me i'm incapable of fairly handling moderation of my own thread but ISD magically becomes a neutral force of good.

Trolling is trolling and provocative dissension is provocative dissension. A bad poster who censors any conflicting opinion isn't going to be a popular poster.

I think the real fear is that a few very eloquent posters who really capture the spirit of the community would have the ability to interject ideas that the majority likes and the vocal minority wouldn't be able to troll the thread into derailment skirting the rules of conduct.
Pipa Porto
#697 - 2012-10-12 10:45:55 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I think the real fear is that a few very eloquent posters who really capture the spirit of the community would have the ability to interject ideas that the majority likes and the vocal minority wouldn't be able to troll the thread into derailment skirting the rules of conduct.


No, the problem is that your idea would turn each thread into it's own fishbowl for the OP and whatever flunkies/sockpuppets they might have.

Your claim that other threads would check this behavior is ridiculous, as all the badposter OP would have to do would be claim the counter threads are just the result of that OP censoring their thread.


At best, it risks splitting every thread with a hint of contention into two threads yelling at each other.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#698 - 2012-10-12 18:29:12 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



There needs to be some oversight here. This guy is clearly hostile toward the player base. We have no recourse. File petition, he'll just delete it. Someone at CCP who's not involved with the Eve community team needs to review the petitions.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Anslo
Scope Works
#699 - 2012-10-12 18:41:47 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



There needs to be some oversight here. This guy is clearly hostile toward the player base. We have no recourse. File petition, he'll just delete it. Someone at CCP who's not involved with the Eve community team needs to review the petitions.


Hostility begets hostility. People can frame certain questions certain ways. Pipa framed hers in a hostile manner, plain and simple. People are assholes in this thread, so assholery will be given back to them. Act civily, and you get civility.

They TRIED to be professional and you bittervet assholes just tear them up. They should have just outright ban people instead of giving them warning. Nothing would be lost anyway.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#700 - 2012-10-12 18:56:05 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Lord Ryan wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.



There needs to be some oversight here. This guy is clearly hostile toward the player base. We have no recourse. File petition, he'll just delete it. Someone at CCP who's not involved with the Eve community team needs to review the petitions.


Hostility begets hostility. People can frame certain questions certain ways. Pipa framed hers in a hostile manner, plain and simple. People are assholes in this thread, so assholery will be given back to them. Act civily, and you get civility.

They TRIED to be professional and you bittervet assholes just tear them up. They should have just outright ban people instead of giving them warning. Nothing would be lost anyway.



You should be the first. Any part of my post vulgar? I try to contribute and enjoy the community I pay to be member. It goes good untill some ISD logs in and starts griefing a player. Nine times out of ten it's ISD's action towards one of you that sets me off. The other could have been found in the T2 BPO thread. Do you think the number of people who are tired of this whole business is small? How many of can Eve afford to lose?

And I'm no more of a Pipa fan than I am yours. I just can't believe the guy in charge, is the it's my house my rules I can change them any time I want screw you if you don't like guy!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.