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Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
Pipa Porto
#381 - 2012-10-09 17:00:44 UTC
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

You're calling people sociopaths for their actions in a game, and you think they're the ones with trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality?

If people are breaking their keyboards and quitting due to a minor setback caused by legitimate gameplay, EVE is not the right game for them. Remember the first rule of EVE, "Don't Fly What You Can't Afford to Lose"? If it's not a minor setback, why did you fly it?


Gankbears do not care about the game. They care about the RL consequences on some unknown player who they grief. This is a form of sociopathy and would deserve permabanning in a nice world in which devs cared more about ingame immersion and freedom than revenue, and realized it takes much effort to trammelize everything so as to keep both carebears and gankbears subscribed.


What real life consequences? It's a game. If you can't separate a game from reality, playing that game is probably not healthy for you. If you're claiming that there are real life consequences that someone inflicts on themselves due to a game, they need professional help not anonymous coddling from developers.

Quote:
Any multiplayer game is not the right game for gankbears, since they cannot play nice, and their roleplaying ability to impersonate criminals elements never exceeds lolrandum Veldspar Defence Force, the equivalent of "U mad? Oooh you so mad".

This "casualization" of high-sec, you and other gankbears brought it upon yourselves. I only hope it's not gonna make highsec shenanigans impossible or way too costly for anyone who really wishes to impersonate an ingame criminal, and weave exciting stories with fellow players.

When you quit EvE, go play Heroes of Newerth. It's full of tryhards thinking they're really clever because they push the cheese envelope all they can, and dudes who play to win, incapable of storytelling. You'll fit right in!


There's a reason why EVE has historically mocked the "LoLRPers" and a reason why there aren't any serious RP corps that actually have an impact on the EVE world. It's because EVE is a competitive game, and RPing simply sets you up to fail.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#382 - 2012-10-09 17:05:51 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile



The AI Change Devblog was detailing how CCP was directly nerfing Ninja-Looting and Ratter hunting.


Ninja looting is never done for the sake of looting and is 1000% done for the sake of making people annoyed enough to shoot you and make you have the ability to fight back. It is a lame PvP form, just suicide gank someone if you think its particularly worth killing their ship in a HS mission. If you see someone get ganked and want to ninja loot their wreck, do it in a ship that can warp off before others can benefit from your newly acquired suspect flag. You can't "ninja loot" in an industrial ship anyways...(well maybe a cloaky hauler).


So you're saying someone else's playstyle should be eliminated because you find it distasteful?

Are you denying that the AI change is a nerf to Ninja-Looting? And yes, of course I know that the intent is to kill the guy in the battleship who thinks he can get a free frigate kill.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
#383 - 2012-10-09 17:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: EglantinFinfleur
Pipa Porto wrote:

What real life consequences? It's a game. If you can't separate a game from reality, playing that game is probably not healthy for you. If you're claiming that there are real life consequences that someone inflicts on themselves due to a game, they need professional help not anonymous coddling from developers.

There's a reason why EVE has historically mocked the "LoLRPers" and a reason why there aren't any serious RP corps that actually have an impact on the EVE world. It's because EVE is a competitive game, and RPing simply sets you up to fail.



Gankbears are sociopaths, and, as all perverts, they know which buttons to push to annoy people. In multiplayer games, it boils down to disregarding immersion, tryharding/cheesing and breaking the fourth wall. It's all the more annoying for people who want to consider the game as and end in itself, and reap ingame accomplishments (instead of out-of-game ones, such as making someone ragequit), since the gankbears will taunt "don't be mad! it's only a game :D", when said gankbears don't care about the game at all, only about annoying RL people, not besting virtual characters.

RPers will never be as competitive as people who play to win, but they don't care, they enjoy fantasy and make-believe. Playing to win is an annoying trait, but can be tolerated as long as it doesn't become full raging gankbearism, which should really call for permaban.


Competitive gaming is an oxymoron. RPGs are about storytelling. If you want to be competitive, be so IRL, become rich, practice violent sports, join the military.

Playing videogames competitively is an absolute fail. But eh, maybe it's the only thing in life you're remotely good at.. What's your age and BMI? Do you use online gaming to offset RL inadequacies and vent pent-up frustration?
Pipa Porto
#384 - 2012-10-09 17:28:21 UTC
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

What real life consequences? It's a game. If you can't separate a game from reality, playing that game is probably not healthy for you. If you're claiming that there are real life consequences that someone inflicts on themselves due to a game, they need professional help not anonymous coddling from developers.

There's a reason why EVE has historically mocked the "LoLRPers" and a reason why there aren't any serious RP corps that actually have an impact on the EVE world. It's because EVE is a competitive game, and RPing simply sets you up to fail.



Gankbears are sociopaths, and, as all perverts, they know which buttons to push to annoy people. In multiplayer games, it boils down to disregarding immersion, tryharding/cheesing and breaking the fourth wall. It's all the more annoying for people who want to consider the game as and end in itself, and reap ingame accomplishments (instead of out-of-game ones, such as making someone ragequit), since the gankbears will taunt "don't be mad! it's only a game :D", when said gankbears don't care about the game at all, only about annoying RL people, not besting virtual characters.

RPers will never be as competitive as people who play to win, but they don't care, they enjoy fantasy and make-believe. Playing to win is an annoying trait, but can be tolerated as long as it doesn't become full raging gankbearism, which should really call for permaban.


Competitive gaming is an oxymoron. RPGs are about storytelling. If you want to be competitive, be so IRL, become rich, practice violent sports, join the military.

Playing videogames competitively is an absolute fail. But eh, maybe it's the only thing in life you're remotely good at.. What's your age and BMI? Do you use online gaming to offset RL inadequacies and vent pent-up frustration?


Claims that activities in a game make you a Sociopath. Check.
Claims that competitive games aren't meant to be competitive. Check.
Claims that anyone who disagrees with him only does so due to real life issues. Check.

Bonus check for confusing Sociopathy with being a "pervert."

Wow.


By the way, there are a number of fine cooperative MMOs available. I suggest you try them out.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#385 - 2012-10-09 18:13:01 UTC
Quote:
So you're not very good at reading.


No because your entire point hinges on you never ending up at a disadvantage against an unknown variable. That makes you a coward.



Quote:
Ganking an unfit Hulk was not profitable pre-buff. Ganking a Tanked Hulk was not profitable pre-buff. Only an untanked, fitted Hulk was profitable pre-buff. There were ways for Miners to ensure that they could not be ganked (they took some slight effort).

Suicide Ganking an untanked, fitted Mack is not profitable now. That means that the miners, without expending any effort whatsoever, are safe.

Claiming that Suicide Ganking is not meant to be profitable is claiming that ISK should provide a Tank. Simple as that.


No, Pipa, they are not the same damn thing. Ganking has high operating costs because you are guaranteed to lose your ship. That is why it shouldn't be profitable.

Quote:
And paying those operating costs for an uncertain outcome* is a risk.

*Tracking and Damage randomness, Loot Drop randomness, ECM Drones, etc.


No Pipa, that is RNG. Risk means someone else to shoot back at you. If you ever left high sec you'd know what I mean. By that definition WoW is a risk laden game because people don't always get the drops they want.


Quote:
And Bolded is where CCP Soundwave is arguing for an ISK tank.

If you read the rest of that thread, you'll notice that he's unclear on what the term "Profit" actually means as well.


No Pipa, that isn't what that means at all. What it means is the pre-buff hulks were ridiculously paper thin even when tanked. They had been surpassed by the tools CCP provided to gankers.
Lieam Thellere
The CodeX Alliance Executive Holdings Corporation
#386 - 2012-10-09 18:35:20 UTC
At this point, I think we may as well let the thread die. It's just Pipa vs Everyone Else, going around in circles. We'll never convince Pipa that this is a good thing.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#387 - 2012-10-09 18:45:23 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

There's a reason why EVE has historically mocked the "LoLRPers" and a reason why there aren't any serious RP corps that actually have an impact on the EVE world. It's because EVE is a competitive game, and RPing simply sets you up to fail.


Because pretending to fly a spaceship is actually based on reality and not role playing! Methinks someone doesn't understand the term 'role playing'. The fact that other people choose to play their 'roles' differently is what makes Eve a role playing game....
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#388 - 2012-10-09 18:49:37 UTC
Lieam Thellere wrote:
At this point, I think we may as well let the thread die. It's just Pipa vs Everyone Else, going around in circles. We'll never convince Pipa that this is a good thing.



While I agree with you a little part of my brain enjoys making her/him look like an idiot.
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2012-10-09 20:18:07 UTC
And here I thought this thread was about the bounty system...

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!

EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
#390 - 2012-10-09 20:19:07 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


Claims that activities in a game make you a Sociopath. Check.
Claims that competitive games aren't meant to be competitive. Check.
Claims that anyone who disagrees with him only does so due to real life issues. Check.

Bonus check for confusing Sociopathy with being a "pervert."

Wow.


By the way, there are a number of fine cooperative MMOs available. I suggest you try them out.



Ingame activities that are not aimed at ingame gains, but at rejoicing in imagining a random dude raging, because you've pushed the game envelope so far as to break his immersion, cheesed your way to play to win, and taunted him by pretending it's only a game, when you don't consider it as such, but as a platform to carry out vicious tendencies without fear of retribution, that is indeed sociopathy.

Competitive gaming is an oxymoron. Which means, gaming isn't meant to be competitive. Competitive online apps are a degeneration of gaming, they separate people and make them resent each other, instead of bringing them together in a storytelling that will gather everyone in a fun and exciting make-believe, which what gaming really is.

Gankbears all have real life issues. My friends who love online games are the most meek people ever, and strangely enough, they have zero interest in DOTA-likes and EvE, as they consider competitivity in gaming an abomination. And guess what, all the gamers I've met who adore those kinds of game, have blatant emotional issues, a severe lack of empathy, regardless of their social status however. Not all gankbears are RL losers economically.

Sociopathy is a byproduct of perversion, which is grossly the inability to interact with other people in healthy and caring ways. Sociopaths will seldom carry out their dreams of violence and sadism in the flesh, as they could end up completely ostracized, or in jail.
Online communities are a dream come true for them. They can be vicious, disruptive and annoying as much as their suffering needs, in order to be soothed.

Permabans would be needed for this minority, but that means less revenue.


However, don't worry. I have little doubt that CCP will allow transferred killrights to be seen by criminals. Why so? because gankbears will love docking up their most sought after characters, waiting for the killrights to expire, and play other ones. Which means, they'll buy account after account, and more revenue for CCP, which has a very cynical approach to the supposed harshness of New Eden, whose environment is very much safe for anyone who doesn't mind investing in alts and doesn't care about coherence in his/her approach to virtual avatars.
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2012-10-09 20:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
I think it is safe to say that behavior expressly for the purpose of discouraging others to play, whether ingame or on the forums, isn't good for the game. You can call it meta, but we all know what it is. It's the bully on the playground encouraging the other children to find other playgrounds instead or just stay home.

I hope this new bounty system works to deter such behavior.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2012-10-09 21:35:03 UTC
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
My friends who love online games are the most meek people ever, and strangely enough, they have zero interest in DOTA-likes and EvE, as they consider competitivity in gaming an abomination.
Would you suggest that games like EVE cater to them?
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#393 - 2012-10-09 23:34:55 UTC
I think if their was a way to check or sort local for people that have reputations as bounty hunters, it would be fair warning enough someone might have your kill rights.

The higher number of bounties collected, the more apparent it would be.

Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#394 - 2012-10-10 07:20:04 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
[quote=CCP Punkturis][quote=Pipa Porto][quote=CCP Punkturis]are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile


snippy etc

I'm not a game designer so I don't have much say in how the game is made. I just try to make really nice User Interface Big smile


Off topic, you did a great job with the tooltips on weapons so you can see optimal range! :) Makes life a bit easier.

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#395 - 2012-10-10 09:12:38 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
[quote=CCP Punkturis][quote=Pipa Porto][quote=CCP Punkturis]are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile


snippy etc

I'm not a game designer so I don't have much say in how the game is made. I just try to make really nice User Interface Big smile


Off topic, you did a great job with the tooltips on weapons so you can see optimal range! :) Makes life a bit easier.


I wish I could take credit for it but that was CCP karkur, it's super cool and I love it!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#396 - 2012-10-10 10:43:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Wrong. Currently, you get a list of active killrights on your character sheet.


And you go flying around with your character sheet open? So you can compare the list with local? In case you didn't get it, I was throwing you a bone. But since you're here to just troll...

Pipa Porto wrote:
Except, as I said, it's trivially easy to figure out that those 6 Catalysts on D-Scan aren't here to have tea. Secondly, it costs them their ship to achieve that imperfect surprise.


What kind of nonsense is this? Gross assumptions do no on e any good. For all you know they could very well be there for a tea party. Or to gank someone else. You don't know why they are there. Unless you compared them to your extensive list of kill-rights that you apparently keep open at all times.

Pipa Porto wrote:
I've no problem with people coming to kill me. I have a problem with people being granted a game mechanically enforced element of surprise for their consequence free attack.


We call this nulsec. Try it some time. But for you nulbabes, I suppose CCP could create a new color tag for someone with kill-rights on you. I hope they don't. Because you broke the law, and deserve to be punished. This is of course why I live in nul. Shoot anyone whenever you want. No consequences other than what they or their bros mete out to you.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Name for me a current mechanic by which the victim of legal aggression could not have discovered who had the legal right to attack him before that attack.


The key there is bolded, legal aggression. Again, the answer is nul. As well as the kill=-rights list you so impressively corrected me on earlier. So what are you complaining about when you are merely regurgitating what I ahve already said?

You're nothing but a forum troll. And a bad one at that.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

FistyMcBumBasher
State War Academy
Caldari State
#397 - 2012-10-10 10:53:13 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hazen Koraka wrote:


Off topic, you did a great job with the tooltips on weapons so you can see optimal range! :) Makes life a bit easier.


I wish I could take credit for it but that was CCP karkur, it's super cool and I love it!


Any chance you could use some of your Punkturis charm and get tracking to also appear on the tooltip?
Pipa Porto
#398 - 2012-10-10 14:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Soldarius wrote:
And you go flying around with your character sheet open? So you can compare the list with local? In case you didn't get it, I was throwing you a bone. But since you're here to just troll...


What kind of nonsense is this? Gross assumptions do no on e any good. For all you know they could very well be there for a tea party. Or to gank someone else. You don't know why they are there. Unless you compared them to your extensive list of kill-rights that you apparently keep open at all times.


You seemed to miss that the D-Scan example is what a Miner can do to break the element of surprise the Ganker is paying their ship for. With a Blind Transferrable killright system, there is nothing you can do to break the game mechanically enforced element of surprise.

Anyway, just like it's the miner's business whether or not they avail themselves of the tools the game gives them to figure out when a gank is incoming (HINT: 6 Catalysts on short range D-Scan are not well wishers), it's my business whether or not I avail myself of the tools the game gives me. The important thing is that those tools exist. (By the way, open killright list > right click > add contact > bad or terrible standing, depending on your preferences).


Quote:
We call this nulsec. Try it some time. But for you nulbabes, I suppose CCP could create a new color tag for someone with kill-rights on you. I hope they don't. Because you broke the law, and deserve to be punished. This is of course why I live in nul. Shoot anyone whenever you want. No consequences other than what they or their bros mete out to you.


So, uh, what part of Nullsec mechanics grants you a game mechanically enforced element of surprise? Ah, that's right, there are none. In Nullsec, you know exactly who can legally shoot you (Hint: It's everyone).

By the way, you are punished for breaking the law in HS. You lose your ship.

Quote:
The key there is bolded, legal aggression. Again, the answer is nul. As well as the kill=-rights list you so impressively corrected me on earlier. So what are you complaining about when you are merely regurgitating what I ahve already said?

You're nothing but a forum troll. And a bad one at that.


And in Null, you know exactly who is legally allowed to shoot you. Just because the set includes everyone doesn't change the fact that you know the parameters of the set.

And I live in Stain right now. But that's not at all relevant to a discussion of HS mechanics.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#399 - 2012-10-10 14:28:22 UTC
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
Ingame activities that are not aimed at ingame gains, but at rejoicing in imagining a random dude raging, because you've pushed the game envelope so far as to break his immersion, cheesed your way to play to win, and taunted him by pretending it's only a game, when you don't consider it as such, but as a platform to carry out vicious tendencies without fear of retribution, that is indeed sociopathy.

Competitive gaming is an oxymoron. Which means, gaming isn't meant to be competitive. Competitive online apps are a degeneration of gaming, they separate people and make them resent each other, instead of bringing them together in a storytelling that will gather everyone in a fun and exciting make-believe, which what gaming really is.


Chess is one of the oldest games in the world. It's highly competitive.
Mancala is even older. Also competitive.
Go. Competitive.
Poker? Competitive.
Monopoly? Competitive.
Starcraft Multiplayer? Competitve.
The first games on the PLATO network (the first online multiplayer games)? Primarily competitive.

Virtually every widespread game ever has been competitive.
Claiming that all games are not meant to be competitive is absurd. If you want a non-competitive game, you are free to avail yourself of a number of other options, but that's not what EVE's about.

By the way, what do you do in EVE? Because I guarantee that you're competing with someone else by doing it (unless you only play on the Test server).

Quote:
Gankbears all have real life issues. My friends who love online games are the most meek people ever, and strangely enough, they have zero interest in DOTA-likes and EvE, as they consider competitivity in gaming an abomination. And guess what, all the gamers I've met who adore those kinds of game, have blatant emotional issues, a severe lack of empathy, regardless of their social status however. Not all gankbears are RL losers economically.

Sociopathy is a byproduct of perversion, which is grossly the inability to interact with other people in healthy and caring ways. Sociopaths will seldom carry out their dreams of violence and sadism in the flesh, as they could end up completely ostracized, or in jail.


Then you really have no idea what Sociopaths are.

Quote:
Online communities are a dream come true for them. They can be vicious, disruptive and annoying as much as their suffering needs, in order to be soothed.

Permabans would be needed for this minority, but that means less revenue.


However, don't worry. I have little doubt that CCP will allow transferred killrights to be seen by criminals. Why so? because gankbears will love docking up their most sought after characters, waiting for the killrights to expire, and play other ones. Which means, they'll buy account after account, and more revenue for CCP, which has a very cynical approach to the supposed harshness of New Eden, whose environment is very much safe for anyone who doesn't mind investing in alts and doesn't care about coherence in his/her approach to virtual avatars.


Overall, wow. EVE is not the right game for you.

Give A Tale in the Desert a try. It sounds right up your alley as what you want from a game. It's a strictly cooperative MMO.
http://www.atitd.com/

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#400 - 2012-10-10 14:29:55 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile


of course. I am eager to see how people will come hunt me Pirate

I has all the eve inactivity