These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

When you see the God of Amarr

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-10-08 22:16:31 UTC
I know that God, the central figure of Amarrian religion, does exist. And if any of you, minmatars, will deny it, it will sound just like you will deny existence of the Empire itself, that I doubt you will do.

I don't want you to get me wrong: I am not going to convert myself into Amarrian religion, share beliefs or participate in rituals. I will stay true to beliefs and ideals of my ancestors, and maybe participate in some rituals, that you don't have to know about. But I know that God exists. He exists like you or me.

You will probably tell me, that this is supernatural, that it can't be proved. I will answer beforehand. He is very real. And I don't have to prove anything: you can see Him yourself, if you will want.

Right before the battle starts, when the enemy is ahead, when the fleets are on standby and waiting for order to open fire, look at faces of Amarrian crusaders. Look at each of them and at all of them, and you will see the Face of God.

When the order is given and first volleys are fired, at the moment after sizzling and sparkling emitters swell with overwhelming light and breathe it out through tinkling crystals, and before thousand of dazzling beams like a swarm of needles will pierce hull of a primaried minmatar vessel, that will crumble and burst shortly in a bright red explosion, you will see the Hand of God.

Each Amarrian, each follower of the religion holds part of God in his own heart. When the time comes, when they stand together, backing each other and full of firm resolve, the God will show himself, He will emerge with in all his glory, might and magnificence. And should you stand against them, you will feel how heavy heavens may be, when they fall with all their weight on your shoulders.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#2 - 2012-10-08 22:39:56 UTC
Interesting way of viewing it.
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#3 - 2012-10-08 23:29:30 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
... drivel


Have you had your psych evaluation this month?

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#4 - 2012-10-08 23:47:26 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
... drivel


Have you had your psych evaluation this month?


I actually understand what she's saying. Its an interesting way of looking at it. The Amarr God as the gestalt of the people who worship him. Once you read past the fanaticism, her point is quite interesting.
Ottom Ephesianos
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2012-10-09 01:12:33 UTC
To view God as mass conspirator actuating lazer beams and calling primary is the same mindset that drove the Amarr people into a parasitic relationship with the Minmatar in the first place. You use God with a capital insinuating there is one and yet talk about the interest of this presence as if there is another which the Amarr must vanquish. If there is only one God which drives the Amarr forward the agenda of this power would not be to destroy its own creations. God in all other sects of belief is a representation of community and protection except in twisted cases where the figure has been manipulated to represent favoritism and subjegation. To assume you or anyone interested in their own advancement has any idea the spiritual objectives of God is heretical to ones owns faith. All Amarrians who do not recognise their failure to find favor in any spiritual light by supporting slavery will be sorely mistaken in the afterlife. As will those who recognise the power of God and choose to the ride the proverbial fence of devotion fearing future change and ethical reformation.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-10-09 01:34:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
...


These days, you sound more Amarrian than Caldari.

By the way, it should be noted that the Caldari are mostly atheist or animist. It's unlikely that our current amicable relationship with the Amarr will last.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-09 04:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaki Mai
Vikarion wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
...


These days, you sound more Amarrian than Caldari.

By the way, it should be noted that the Caldari are mostly atheist or animist. It's unlikely that our current amicable relationship with the Amarr will last.


I know that the Kingdom has a slightly different relationship with The State than the Empire does, but still. It seems to me that the relationship will last for as long as our need to stand together against the alliance between the Gallente and the Minmatar overrides any compulsion for us to tread on the cultural distinctiveness of each other.

The other factor would be that the alliance is only important for so long as the Gallente and the Caldari remain in emnity and the Amarr and the Minmatar remain in emnity. Obviously, if any faction should shake loose the shackles of hate that bind it to it's nemesis, the alliance would no longer be necessary.

Thus it should hold firm for quite some time to come.
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#8 - 2012-10-09 04:38:52 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

By the way, it should be noted that the Caldari are mostly atheist or animist. It's unlikely that our current amicable relationship with the Amarr will last.


I am glad that you speak for all of us Caldari in this matter. Let me call up Heth and tell him that the State cannot benefit at all from positive relations with the Amarr Empire. And while I'm at it, I'll inform various megas that our wisest capsuleer-representative says their deals won't be profitable after all.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2012-10-09 07:20:18 UTC
Firstly, God is not the "God of Amarr" - he is the God of everyone, no matter what their bloodline is.

Secondly, He exists independently of human experience.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Braitai
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-10-09 07:48:15 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Firstly, God is not the "God of Amarr" - he is the God of everyone, no matter what their bloodline is.

Secondly, He exists independently of human experience.


Now, now, Rodj, I'm sure god can speak for himself, being omnipotent and all.

*snigger*
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-10-09 08:49:10 UTC
Braitai wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Firstly, God is not the "God of Amarr" - he is the God of everyone, no matter what their bloodline is.

Secondly, He exists independently of human experience.


Now, now, Rodj, I'm sure god can speak for himself, being omnipotent and all.

*snigger*


People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I could poke fun at your magic tattoo, after all.
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-10-09 12:22:54 UTC
You mean the tattoo you can actually see appear without the use of any equipment during the Voluval ceremony?
as opposed to the god who you claim exists with no proof?

also, you are one to speak of glass housing, slaver.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#13 - 2012-10-09 12:47:52 UTC
I don't like saying this very often, but Diana Kim has the right of it. God, as the Amarr believe in god, exists in the crusaders. Their faith is a very powerful thing, and can drive them to extremes, in both the positive and negative sense of that. The Minmatar drive for freedom and/or revenge is similar.

The Caldari religions, as far as I have studied them, appear to have the opposite effect, working as a moderating influence. You won't find too many Caldari willing to die for The Way, for instance, but you will find a lot of them quietly meditating on the concept and using it to ground themselves.
Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2012-10-09 18:04:00 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Firstly, God is not the "God of Amarr" - he is the God of everyone, no matter what their bloodline is.


Speak for yourself god lover. That thing isn't my "god." It doesn't exist.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#15 - 2012-10-09 18:23:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I know that God, the central figure of Amarrian religion, does exist. And if any of you, minmatars, will deny it, it will sound just like you will deny existence of the Empire itself, that I doubt you will do.


That's ridiculous, of course the Empire exists, it has to so they could make their God up.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Kalchak
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-10-09 18:38:02 UTC
There are no gods, unless you count the immortal capsuleers of our age.

The God of the Amarr faith is simply a way of shifting personal responsibility made large.
What atrocity can you not commit in the name of "God"? What crime can you possibly convict "God" of?
It makes it easier to sleep at night, to ignore the gnawing of a starved conscience, to remind yourself that "God" wills it.
Scaled up to the level of an empire? What horrors a people can commit when all can be laid at the feet of "God", when entire populations can say in a strong, heady voice "This horror was the will of God!".

Of course this is simply fantasy, a delusion raised to protect the weak-minded from taking responsibility for the horrors they commit on a daily basis.

It will ultimately lead to disaster, as the inevitable culture shock tears the very foundations of faith apart. As more and more look to the night sky and realise that no god dwells above, or below.

This then leads to the final realisation that no god dwells within either. All the crimes you have committed cannot be ascribed to some external force.

This is why we pity the Amarr. They ascribe every thought, act, and deed to a mythical entity, that they may wash themselves of the blood they spill.

One day it will destroy them and, thanks to the constant conflict they themselves promote, we will not be able to help them even should we wish it.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-10-09 21:04:42 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Firstly, God is not the "God of Amarr" - he is the God of everyone, no matter what their bloodline is.

Excuse me, but I am not a follower of the religion under discussion and, disregarding my admiration, I have no association with it. There are many other religions and Gods, and, omitting question about their existence, there are still their names or concepts about them. Thus, taking into account my affiliation, I had to indicate explicitly what God Im talking about.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-10-09 21:36:17 UTC
Kalchak wrote:
There are no gods, unless you count the immortal capsuleers of our age.

Then you just can't see beyond your own nose.

Kalchak wrote:

The God of the Amarr faith is simply a way of shifting personal responsibility made large.
What atrocity can you not commit in the name of "God"? What crime can you possibly convict "God" of?
It makes it easier to sleep at night, to ignore the gnawing of a starved conscience, to remind yourself that "God" wills it.
Scaled up to the level of an empire? What horrors a people can commit when all can be laid at the feet of "God", when entire populations can say in a strong, heady voice "This horror was the will of God!".

Oh, believe me, I can do such atrocities, that you can't even think about, and I don't need concepts of God for this. But I am a combat pilot, and I am ready to take retribution. From my point of view, only those, who are ready to die by the gun can wield a gun.

There is a payment for everything. I don't have problems with sleep, and my 'starving conscience' doesn't gnaw me. Because I know that eventually I have to pay, and I am ready to take the payment before I commit the action. The fear disappears when you accept your fate.

It is easier to accept, when you realize, that we are not free, we are not wild animals, and for every move we do, for every word we say and for every action we take, we hold responsibility. They know that they will be responsible to heavens. I know that I am responsible to this world. And I can't say where retribution is harder to take.

That you see me as a capsuleer is already my payment for what I have done before.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-10-09 22:02:37 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
You mean the tattoo you can actually see appear without the use of any equipment during the Voluval ceremony?
as opposed to the god who you claim exists with no proof?

also, you are one to speak of glass housing, slaver.


A smarter debater might have sensed I was speaking of the magic part of it, instead of the ink. And clearly you don't regard a pair of syringes as equipment. I do.

The point was not for me to poke fun at Matari beliefs, merely to point out that you yourselves take some things on faith.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#20 - 2012-10-09 22:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Anabella Rella
If all this claptrap is true Kim how do you explain your Amarrian pals getting stomped at Vak'Atioth? Apparently superior technology trumps your invisible, unknowable, unprovable deity.

Just as an aside, I wonder how your "beliefs" would go over with your people back on Saisio? You sound far more like an Amarrian shill rather than a pragmatic Achur.

P.S. Your rampant xenophobia and racism is showing. You know there are plenty of others of all nations who also deny the existence of the Amarrian deity. Why the need to single out my people?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

123Next pageLast page