These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How to Boil a Frog

First post
Author
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#81 - 2012-10-09 04:53:54 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


]...] I'm all for ganking idiots but not by means of convoluted mechanics such as people dropping cans marked free stuff outside noob stations and then ganking those who take from them because they don't know any better, hopefully the new idiot switch will prevent this kind of thing happening. [...]


This is against the game-rules --one thing that CCP explicitly names as griefing, in fact-- and can get you banned if you do it.

Ergo, idiot-switch not needed, at least here, unless CCP has stopped enforcing that rule?

Ni.

Pipa Porto
#82 - 2012-10-09 06:59:50 UTC
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.


Are you talking about the changes that happened during the Crucible expansion, that increased the cost of Suicide Ganking? You're conveniently forgetting the insurance nerf that was included with that "buff."

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-10-09 07:18:40 UTC
Oh noes! The EVE interface is becoming more and more informative. This surely is a clear sign that EVE is dying!
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#84 - 2012-10-09 07:22:16 UTC
I think we are dealing with the CCP concession that bots are people too y'know.

A sub is a sub and our sweet precious candy is low risk, high ISK activities.

If the toys needed are also "exploitable" as in you don't have to be playing the game to be "safe" I guess they see that as OK as long as no-one gets hurt badly - until it becomes a mind numbing bore, where all emergent gaming is squashed until the game struggles to renew as its regarded as that crap (see subs are subs).

EVE is resembling the "Red Dwarf" game "Better Than Life" complete with the corrosive, self destructive outcome.

Josef Djugashvilis
#85 - 2012-10-09 07:38:20 UTC
If hi-sec is so awful, why is it, by some considerable distance, the most popular play area in Eve?

This is something the hi-sec haters need to answer.

I have no strong personal views on what should or should not be done to 'improve' hi-sec. Whatever is done, I will simply adapt to as well as I can.

But given that much of null and lo-sec seems to be largely bereft of players, I am not convinced that turning hi-sec into null and lo-sec is the way to go.

When it comes to the mining buffs, it is simply harder, not impossible to gank them. This is no different in principle than my Dominix being harder to gank than a Destroyer.

This is not a signature.

Pipa Porto
#86 - 2012-10-09 07:39:07 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Oh noes! The EVE interface is becoming more and more informative. This surely is a clear sign that EVE is dying!


Except that's not all that's happening. Significant and pernicious mechanical changes are coming with the UI changes.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#87 - 2012-10-09 07:42:21 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
When it comes to the mining buffs, it is simply harder, not impossible to gank them. This is no different in principle than my Dominix being harder to gank than a Destroyer.


How long are you going to keep trying that pathetic straw man. Nobody's claimed that it's impossible. Just that it's impossible to do so profitably, which guts the profession. And that that giant buff came at no cost to the miners.

It was never profitable to gank an unfit Hulk. It was never profitable to gank a tanked Hulk. It was only when the Hulk put expensive modules on with no tank that they were profitable to gank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-10-09 07:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If hi-sec is so awful, why is it, by some considerable distance, the most popular play area in Eve?

This is something the hi-sec haters need to answer.
This is a bad question because noone in this thread said 'highsec was awful', but I'll answer it anyway.
Lack of industrial capacity in nullsec and w-space. Small scale miners and industrialists are pointless liabilities in an environment where locally produced goods cannot possibly hope to meet demand (single highsec systems have more manufacturing capacity then entire 0.0 regions). It's more effective to put them in an area where they can't kill each other and instead have them endlessly undercut each other due to an anemic and impotent conflict resolution system.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-10-09 07:51:38 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If hi-sec is so awful, why is it, by some considerable distance, the most popular play area in Eve?
Because people are lazy. They gravitate to areas of the game that give the greatest payout for the least amount of hassle and danger. The safer highsec becomes, the harder it will be to encourage people to try other parts of the game.
Josef Djugashvilis
#90 - 2012-10-09 07:55:26 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If hi-sec is so awful, why is it, by some considerable distance, the most popular play area in Eve?

This is something the hi-sec haters need to answer.
This is a stupid question because noone in this thread said 'highsec was awful', but I'll answer it anyway.
Lack of industrial capacity in nullsec and w-space. Small scale miners and industrialists are pointless liabilities in an environment where locally produced goods cannot hope to meet demand. It's more effective to put them in an area where they can't kill each other and instead have them endlessly undercut each other due to an anemic and impotent conflict resolution system.


I have long argued that the way to go is to make null lo-sec more attractive to players.

The proposed 'Stakeholder' idea may well be a step in the right direction.

Constant whinging about how safe hi-sec is not going to achieve this.

This is not a signature.

Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#91 - 2012-10-09 08:01:50 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If hi-sec is so awful, why is it, by some considerable distance, the most popular play area in Eve?

This is something the hi-sec haters need to answer.

I have no strong personal views on what should or should not be done to 'improve' hi-sec. Whatever is done, I will simply adapt to as well as I can.

But given that much of null and lo-sec seems to be largely bereft of players, I am not convinced that turning hi-sec into null and lo-sec is the way to go.

When it comes to the mining buffs, it is simply harder, not impossible to gank them. This is no different in principle than my Dominix being harder to gank than a Destroyer.
So answering your own question here.

This is not an EVE is dying position by any means, however...

If High Sec is simply a low risk, high ISK, semi-AFK, fun park I expect plenty of players. Plenty of soon to be bored players or insanely rich players.

There's nothing technically wrong with that - if people head into the wild blue yonder. No point going there though.

Do Null Sec people have to come to High to cause havoc. Technically no, but it seems like plenty of nefarious High Sec activities are being nerfed. Besides a safer ISK rich world in high sec there's not much of a career progression to low or null.

Once the freighter buff comes you will know we are headed for a bad place.

Hi sec churn.
Josef Djugashvilis
#92 - 2012-10-09 08:05:13 UTC
Dear Pipa Porto, I have never used the comparison between ganking a Domininx and ganking a Destroyer before.

Just so you know.

Kind regards, Josef.

This is not a signature.

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#93 - 2012-10-09 08:06:11 UTC
I thought it will be something about gallente. P
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-10-09 08:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

I have long argued that the way to go is to make null lo-sec more attractive to players.

The proposed 'Stakeholder' idea may well be a step in the right direction.

Constant whinging about how safe hi-sec is not going to achieve this.

I think it's a more complicated answer then merely 'buff nullsec'. Quite frankly, on things like manufacturing, highsec has it so damn good (able to handle high, null, low and wh manufacturing needs with room to spare for free) that inserting a nullsec industry system capable of making that look like crap would introduce its own problems. Personally, I'd like to see it so that while highsec is always capable of meeting its own industrial needs, other regions would be inclined to set up industrial bases on their own turf because highsec simply would no longer be capable of producing everything.

Likewise, the big powerblocs' ability to completely outsource their war machine to highsec where their most valuable production goods and supply lines are protected by CONCORD can only really be broken by removing the most egregious anti-risk aspects of highsec (wardec evasion, NPC corps). These, combined with buffing nullsec so that it'd be able to handle the increased industrial workload, would be a good compromise that would culminate in player-run alliances being able to finally establish developed economies (instead of the resource extraction-centered game we've played for the past 9 years) that would open the doors to true capitalistic, non-feudal systems.
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-10-09 09:12:46 UTC
It's quite obvious that a stork would like a frog to be easily catchable. It also would seem very good at first that the stork population would greatly rise.
Hopefully I don't need you to enlighten what would happen with the frog population then. And for sure you would come to a sane conclusion who's next on the list of extinction.
Pipa Porto
#96 - 2012-10-09 09:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Pipa Porto, I have never used the comparison between ganking a Domininx and ganking a Destroyer before.

Just so you know.

Kind regards, Josef.


That's not an argument, that's an example (and a bad one at that). Your tired old straw man was:

Quote:
When it comes to the mining buffs, it is simply harder, not impossible to gank them.


Reading Comprehension is a virtue.

Just so you know.

Kind Regards, etc,

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#97 - 2012-10-09 09:38:20 UTC
Get a room you two. Blink
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-10-09 10:05:22 UTC
There is plenty of PVP in null and lowsec, why do you all are so eager to kill players in hisec ? Is it because you are affraid of fighting someone who is prepared and expects fight ? I'm tired of you pathetic cries, "PVPers".
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#99 - 2012-10-09 10:18:49 UTC
It's kind of telling that you assume that everyone in highsec is unprepared and not expecting a fight. This is EVE, it's advertised as an open PVP game, if people can get away with being unprepared and not expecting to have to fight at any point then there is a problem.
Josef Djugashvilis
#100 - 2012-10-09 10:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Reading comphrehension is a skill not a virtue.

Dear me, I am becoming petty minded as well.

Sorry.

This is not a signature.