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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Vexor or Myrmidon High/lowsec exploration

Author
Robbin Sund
#1 - 2012-10-09 03:36:11 UTC
I am not sure if this should go on Q&A for new citizens, but since im still fresh! : D
I got myself a Retriever for a steady isk-source, now I can die without huge worries.
Can do highsec exploration, some combatsites work, and all hack/salvage/analyze.

So, now the idea is to do high-sec and low-sec exploring. probably lowsec later, or as soon as possible, depending on how much I must prepare myself.

The area I hang around in is a bit "populated", so exploration is rather hard, I just jump and explore in all directions I can, sometimes going from serpentis to other areas as blood, giving specific harders a bit annoying to try and "plan ahead".
I want to do some combatsites, that would be nice, but primary is Radar/mag sites (magsites in highsec sucks!)
Is it worth checking into ladar highsec? someone mentioned its good on lowsec atleast.


Should I go for Vexor or Myrmidon? is Myrmidon more limted in combat areas? (I am not switching ships for combatzones, one-size allthetime)
I had some issues with one or two highsec combat sites, which I couldn't complete what so ever.
Survival/damage was to bad, guess I could skip combatsites in lowsec for later, if it takes way to long time to prepare for.


I am currently skilling up for cloaked ships and improved probes/drones a bit.
Just got myself the power to rig my ships.

trying to use EFT, I dont get that good of a result, using API to get my skills to get a bit more accurate data.
this is what I land on as Myrmidon, no idea on weapons or if I should use 2 probe-rigs instead of one another.
I aim for using hobgobs and Hammerheads as drones, 3 hobs, 2 hammers, thats the dps I get in return.
http://i49.tinypic.com/9rmvsy.png


And Vexor. http://i48.tinypic.com/1jwx75.png almost same build.


I hope for some inputs, what I might done wrong and so on.
Ofc I know using II items instead is way better, but I try to aim for an "effective way" with what I can do now and within 3-4 days reach, then while using that I will ofcourse master what I can and fly it in the "best" fit later on.

Preferd talking in a weeks range, not in a month. : D

One way trip! Why dont you drive?

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#2 - 2012-10-09 04:40:02 UTC
The Vexor and Myrmidon are essential the same ship, just one is the little brother and the other is the big brother. Of the two I would naturally recommend the Myrmidon, naturally, but not just because it's bigger. The three other reasons are:

#1) Battlecruisers skill is still universal right now, so the points that you invest in Battlecruisers will apply across the board to any other faction's battlecruisers that you want to use later. This cannot be said for the Gallente Cruiser skill. In the long run, you'll get more bang for your buck training Battlecruisers to 5 than you would get training Gallente Cruiser to 5 (to get the same +50% drone bonuses, as both are dedicated drone carriers).

#2) Myrmidon is a one of only two dedicated drone ships (It's Amarr little cousin the Arbitrator is the other) that get no turret bonuses of any kind. This is actually an advantage because it means that you're free to be as creative as you want when it comes to what turrets you want to fit. Hybrids? Lasers? Cannons? All are perfectly viable options and you won't be throwing any turret bonuses away by doing so (because there aren't any to begin with).

#3) Now this won't help in PvP (much) but in my experience the Myrmidon has a passive shield tank potential exceeded only by the ubiquitous Drake, and that's saying something. With enough skill and T2 gear you can run a Myrmidon through most L4 missions solo, something I've only seen the Drake lay claim to otherwise.

IMHO, the Vexor is best thought of as the training ship to prepare you for the Myrmidon later. It gets you used to dedicate drone carriers & their tactics. Once you get a good feel for it, you then trade up to the Vexor's bigger, badder brother and it's a seamless transition.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Robbin Sund
#3 - 2012-10-09 04:53:02 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
The Vexor and Myrmidon are essential the same ship, just one is the little brother and the other is the big brother. Of the two I would naturally recommend the Myrmidon, naturally, but not just because it's bigger. The three other reasons are:

#1) Battlecruisers skill is still universal right now, so the points that you invest in Battlecruisers will apply across the board to any other faction's battlecruisers that you want to use later. This cannot be said for the Gallente Cruiser skill. In the long run, you'll get more bang for your buck training Battlecruisers to 5 than you would get training Gallente Cruiser to 5 (to get the same +50% drone bonuses, as both are dedicated drone carriers).

#2) Myrmidon is a one of only two dedicated drone ships (It's Amarr little cousin the Arbitrator is the other) that get no turret bonuses of any kind. This is actually an advantage because it means that you're free to be as creative as you want when it comes to what turrets you want to fit. Hybrids? Lasers? Cannons? All are perfectly viable options and you won't be throwing any turret bonuses away by doing so (because there aren't any to begin with).

#3) Now this won't help in PvP (much) but in my experience the Myrmidon has a passive shield tank potential exceeded only by the ubiquitous Drake, and that's saying something. With enough skill and T2 gear you can run a Myrmidon through most L4 missions solo, something I've only seen the Drake lay claim to otherwise.

IMHO, the Vexor is best thought of as the training ship to prepare you for the Myrmidon later. It gets you used to dedicate drone carriers & their tactics. Once you get a good feel for it, you then trade up to the Vexor's bigger, badder brother and it's a seamless transition.



Thanks for that, I am running a Vexor at the moment, using some medium high-range "railguns", my issue is thou, when rats engange closer, I have to try and get away, with my microwarp I get a speed of around 300+, not always making it in time, so will have to try out different ways.
Is there any other item I could use to boost drones or suvival fitting instead of weapons in highslot?

I have been aiming for almost pure drone-ship, not sure if its really viable later on, myrmidon is something I should continue toward then. : )

One way trip! Why dont you drive?

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#4 - 2012-10-09 05:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Just remember that the Myrmi is slower and has a higher Sig. Vexor seems to be very common for the task last I checked. Good ship, just fit arti or autos instead of rails. Rail dps is unbelievably pathetic.

I'm not sure of the exact fit, but I know you can pop a cloak, MWD, decent tank and guns on the Vexor, and possibly a WCS to counter point, plus maybe Nano and a shield tank. Never seen the actual fit though, so I don't know for sure what it uses for guns or if it has point or what.

edit: actually, no shields as mids is limited, so I went with armor. Not sure it's all that great, but it's just a basic fit and check. Looks half decent with reasonable EHP, but I'd need to plug it into EFT or Pyfa to get a better idea as my Drone skills are bad, and I haven't got much trained in Mediums.

Went with the Hybrids afterall, as the ship gets a bonus and it's Cap isn't awful. Not great, but not awful. Just a sample really; take it with a grain of salt.. Smile


Vexor

Prototype Cloaking Device I
Anode Electron Particle Cannon I
Anode Electron Particle Cannon I
Anode Electron Particle Cannon I
Anode Electron Particle Cannon I

Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Warrior II
Hammerhead II
Ogre II

Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M
Nanite Repair Paste
Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge M
Navy Cap Booster 100
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Fc Lecky
Secure Arms Trade Coalition
#5 - 2012-10-09 05:58:15 UTC
I used the arbitrator for hisec all-in-one kind of thing. My plan was to take agro then let the drones do the work, while I keep an eye on their shields and recall them if theyre being targetted. Here's my setup ( I figure it will work with vexor too but yea just put your own taste in there )

Rigs: 2 Medium Gravity Capacitor ( for the probe bonuses )
Highs : Drone Link for the range
Sisters core launcher ( expanded is hard to fit )
Rapid light missile ( whatever you want I just happen to have missile skills )
Salvager
Mid: Afterburner
2 Large shield extenders
codebreaker ( I have analyzer in my cargo just in case )
Low: 2 meta 4 shield power relay
2 drone damage amp

I can get 170dps with my current skills and being a cruiser i can go to hideouts and 3/10 and can do 4/10 with manual piloting. The main problem is I cant do a 4/10 that quick so if a tengu decides to join I basically lose the race. Radars/mag sites are no problem at all. But if you're only planning to do 4/10's then yea stick with the myrmidon I guess, altho with my experience probably 40% of my hideouts turned into the Sooth Sayer expeditions that can drop implants and most of older explorers tend to just ignore it, and 3/10's can drop A-type modules so all in all not bad. Eventually I'll switch to a tengu for everything hisec. Hope it helps.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-10-09 10:58:51 UTC
Robbin Sund wrote:
...with my microwarp I get a speed of around 300+, not always making it in time...


Check the thrust rating of your microwarp drive. A Vexor needs a 10MN microwarp drive; a 1MN won't give you the thrust you need (1MN is a frigate/destroyer-sized MWD; 10MN is cruiser/battlecrusier sized; 100MN is battleship-sized).

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#7 - 2012-10-09 10:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
First of all you don't have to go to low sec to make "good isk" with exploration, it can be done in high sec just fine. Secondly the fit you linked (and also other fits in this thread) are just a mess :P Fit needed depends on where you do exploration and what type you're doing, focus your resists more and don't use the reactive armor hardener, it's rubbish in this situation because of its cap use.

Here's a fit (you're fine to translate it to T1/named) that will work, just realise that you will have issues (both tanking as dps wise) in the better sites, even in high sec, and this fit assumes you'll be in Gallente or Caldari space due to the resists types fitted. You don't need grav rigs in high sec, all the sites you can actually handle you'll be able to probe down using just the prober, no massive skills, sister gear or grav rigs required. Also I wouldn't bother fitting/using the analyser, generally those sites don't pay too well compared to other types of sites so you might as well forget about it. Radar sites (which need a codebreaker) ARE very much worth it. The "silly" civilian turret is just there to gain aggro, it uses no ammo so it's great for that.

[Vexor, Explorer]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Codebreaker I

Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge
[empty high slot]
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-10-09 14:18:10 UTC
Some highsec sites exclude battlecruisers. If you can afford a Myrm, you can also afford a Vexor and choose to fly the one that takes best advantage of the sites you find in your area. If you're just trying to farm Radar sites in highsec, then I'd say use a destroyer or the upgraded Exploration Frigates coming in December for better speed.
Robbin Sund
#9 - 2012-10-10 07:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Robbin Sund
Thanks for all the replies, managed to buy almost everything I need.
Even bought 2 x 100mn microwarps by accident. woop. ;) cost to much power to use, hehe.

Will I really need all that power with rigs and everything thou? Seeing I dont use guns, can a repair drain all that fast?

Training to use specific hardeners and cap recharger II.
Might be putting a cloak on the ship, almost completed the training for it.
Tractorbeam is for wrecks right? does it really save time? :o

EDIT:
Hm, overload, is it something worth checking into, or should I skip it as an explorer in highsec?
Started off nicely 3-4 locations where my vexor cant go.. : D oh well

One way trip! Why dont you drive?

Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-10 14:46:54 UTC
Robbin Sund wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, managed to buy almost everything I need.
Even bought 2 x 100mn microwarps by accident. woop. ;) cost to much power to use, hehe.

Will I really need all that power with rigs and everything thou? Seeing I dont use guns, can a repair drain all that fast?

Training to use specific hardeners and cap recharger II.
Might be putting a cloak on the ship, almost completed the training for it.
Tractorbeam is for wrecks right? does it really save time? :o

EDIT:
Hm, overload, is it something worth checking into, or should I skip it as an explorer in highsec?
Started off nicely 3-4 locations where my vexor cant go.. : D oh well


you will lose ships in low sec explo as a new(er) player. so you have to factor in that loss. I wouldnt fly anything other than a cruiser for highsec as you run into gated sites. 3/10 sites and higher and also there are combat sites with no restrictions. Stick to around 0.5 high sec systems as you will encounter up to 4/10 sites there.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#11 - 2012-10-11 02:36:07 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
First of all you don't have to go to low sec to make "good isk" with exploration, it can be done in high sec just fine. Secondly the fit you linked (and also other fits in this thread) are just a mess :P Fit needed depends on where you do exploration and what type you're doing, focus your resists more and don't use the reactive armor hardener, it's rubbish in this situation because of its cap use.

Here's a fit (you're fine to translate it to T1/named) that will work, just realise that you will have issues (both tanking as dps wise) in the better sites, even in high sec, and this fit assumes you'll be in Gallente or Caldari space due to the resists types fitted. You don't need grav rigs in high sec, all the sites you can actually handle you'll be able to probe down using just the prober, no massive skills, sister gear or grav rigs required. Also I wouldn't bother fitting/using the analyser, generally those sites don't pay too well compared to other types of sites so you might as well forget about it. Radar sites (which need a codebreaker) ARE very much worth it. The "silly" civilian turret is just there to gain aggro, it uses no ammo so it's great for that.

[Vexor, Explorer]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Codebreaker I

Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge
[empty high slot]
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Do you really need all those Capacitor rechargers, Control Circuits for 'that' fit? Cripes, I did my first Radar site in a Probe in a 0.5, and only had to jump out to grab a ship to kill the fighter at the can. I think I went and grabbed a catalyst or a Thrasher for that. ..ah.. Armor Hardeners; I see now. Maybe a little extreme.

If you're going to do that, Shield Tank it. One Adaptive Invuln will chew Cap, but not that much, and even a Vexor can get a better tank that way. Besides that, you have no buffer, and if you're looking at 0.0 or Lowsec, you're probably going to need one.

Also, the fit I linked was actually more along the lines of a Null Ratter. Not exact I'm sure, but somewhere in there. Too tired at the time to make a serious effort and I didn't have EFT on my PC at the time.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#12 - 2012-10-11 03:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Another sample; this one from EFT:

[Vexor, shield thing]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Codebreaker I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x4
Ogre II x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hornet EC-300 x5

edit: Forgot the Probe Launcher Smile

..and another fit Smile

[Myrmidon, Mad Myrmigan]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Codebreaker I

Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager I
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Ogre II x1
Hammerhead II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Ogre II x1
Hobgoblin II x4
Hammerhead II x1
Hobgoblin II x1
Hornet EC-300 x5
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Keno Skir
#13 - 2012-10-12 00:10:10 UTC
Why is everyone linking tech2 fits for this guy?

As said above get the Myrm and the Vexor, the Myrm won't be allowed in some sites but the Vexor will be too tiddly to do the ones the Myrm can. You need more than just drone DPS on there, 40-50dps isn't going to cut it for many sites. Both fits you linked had spare highslots, the Myrm one had a duel rep too. You could swap out one repper (remember armor reps eat cap like fat kids do cupcakes) for another resist or a plate and hopefully have enough PG and CPU to fit a railgun or two.

Duel repping (or even triple) is a valid strategy for the Myrmidon but i feel with low skills and low incoming DPS this would be counter productive for you at this stage. Also remember you can find out what damage types to expect and tank specifically. Swapping out those 2 adaptive nano's for dedicated 50% resists will see your tank doing much better. Just keep a 50% resist for each damage type in cargo for quick swaps.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#14 - 2012-10-12 01:24:06 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Why is everyone linking tech2 fits for this guy?

As said above get the Myrm and the Vexor, the Myrm won't be allowed in some sites but the Vexor will be too tiddly to do the ones the Myrm can. You need more than just drone DPS on there, 40-50dps isn't going to cut it for many sites. Both fits you linked had spare highslots, the Myrm one had a duel rep too. You could swap out one repper (remember armor reps eat cap like fat kids do cupcakes) for another resist or a plate and hopefully have enough PG and CPU to fit a railgun or two.

Duel repping (or even triple) is a valid strategy for the Myrmidon but i feel with low skills and low incoming DPS this would be counter productive for you at this stage. Also remember you can find out what damage types to expect and tank specifically. Swapping out those 2 adaptive nano's for dedicated 50% resists will see your tank doing much better. Just keep a 50% resist for each damage type in cargo for quick swaps.


They're tech 2 because they fit with Tech 2. Swapping them out for meta or T1 will only make it more viable. That said, both those fits are in excess of 600 DPS. Not sure about the fits he linked though. 40-50 DPS, you might as well fly a Frigate as it'll put out the same with relatively low skills. I'm sure the ones above would too; or not much more than anyway.

Samples. ..and I fit that Myrmi and thought it was pretty cool, so I put it there.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Keno Skir
#15 - 2012-10-12 01:30:26 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
They're tech 2 because they fit with Tech 2. Swapping them out for meta or T1 will only make it more viable. That said, both those fits are in excess of 600 DPS. Not sure about the fits he linked though. 40-50 DPS, you might as well fly a Frigate as it'll put out the same with relatively low skills. I'm sure the ones above would too; or not much more than anyway.

Samples. ..and I fit that Myrmi and thought it was pretty cool, so I put it there.


"They tech2 because i fit them with.. err.... tech2..... just kinda thought it was a cool fit y'know?"

Very nice but a glance at the fits he posted gives you an context for the question. He can achieve way over the 50dps in those 2 fits with some small adjustments, and downgrading to a frigate isnt going to do him any favours for the sites he mentioned he wanted to run.

Get the Myrm, but fly it for ages and watch as it blossoms into a killing machine as your skills do.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#16 - 2012-10-12 03:26:01 UTC
I see and understand the point about the BC skill, but I would still train cruisers. Why? To train up to Tech 3 of course! Not sure about the Gallente version, but the Tengu kicks butt when fitted for exploration.

Meanwhile the Vexor is a pretty nifty ship. I see them in WH space all the time.

One question though, why does the Tech 3 Amarr cruiser have more drone capacity than the Tech 3 Gallente when fitted for such?
Robbin Sund
#17 - 2012-10-12 08:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Robbin Sund
Thanks for all the answers, yeah the dps is crap, im working on improving dronedamage with skills.
If I were to bring a weapon, im not sure what kind of weapon I would want, a longrange medium perhaps?

Seeing the times I have been playing with my vexor, going to any distance closer then 16km hurts like hell in some holes, staying around 16+ and tossing drones for king and country works like a charm. ;D takes a while as it currently is thou.

I just managed to get my hands on the skill to use cloak, is it even worth using in highsec? since I am kiting them with drones, and.. second.. do cloak and drones even work together?

Combat drone operations (extra damage)
5 drones (3 days left to that)
Gallente cruiser (extra damage)
Besides range and that dronedamage equipment, is there anything else that improves Hobgoblin I and Hammerhead I ?
Will look into II of those later down the road,

One way trip! Why dont you drive?

BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#18 - 2012-10-12 09:35:27 UTC
NO point in using a cloak in highsec as as soon as you get targeted you will not be able to cloak, also if I recall correctly when you do cloak your drones will stop working.

Vexor should be fine for most radar sites and if you do find a 4/10 you can always ship up to the Myrmidon and hope that someone else hasn't found the site whilst you are doing so.

Another good excuse to train up the Vexor is you will be able to train into an Ishtar (T2 Vexor) which is a BEAST for exploration when fitted correctly.

Good luck in your exploration by the way!
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-10-12 17:51:27 UTC
Cap stability isn't strictly necessary, at least not for the sites I've been running in highsec. Pulse the armor rep as needed and use an afterburner to maintain range from the pack.