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Solar Panels on Minatar ships

Author
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#21 - 2011-10-17 18:44:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Yeah... how exactly are nuclear reactors cooled again?
In space? Through radiation.


Hmm... from what I recall from my nuclear days, you use convection to transfer the heat from the primary to the secondary, with the coolant in the secondary being converted to steam and used kinetically to provide work. The coolant in the secondary is then cooled to cycle back through the heat exchange with the primary.

So the question is, how would you take the heat extracted from the secondary and convert that to a form that can be efficiently radiated into the vacuum of space?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2011-10-17 18:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ingvar Angst wrote:
So the question is, how would you take the heat extracted from the secondary and convert that to a form that can be efficiently radiated into the vacuum of space?
By running it through a myriad of cooling surfaces — the more surface the better. A standard passive cooling system.

You could do it by simply dumping the coolant as well, but that gets cumbersome.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-10-17 18:54:01 UTC
expose the core to space
lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#24 - 2011-10-17 19:03:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
So the question is, how would you take the heat extracted from the secondary and convert that to a form that can be efficiently radiated into the vacuum of space?
By running it through a myriad of cooling surfaces — the more surface the better. A standard passive cooling system.

You could do it by simply dumping the coolant as well, but that gets cumbersome.


Hmm... seems horribly inefficient when compared to convective cooling... I wonder if some sort of a dummy load to suck out the most energy kinetically as possible would suffice to cool the secondary enough... of course the energy captured by the dummy load would still have to be dealt with...

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2011-10-17 19:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Hmm... seems horribly inefficient when compared to convective cooling... I wonder if some sort of a dummy load to suck out the most energy kinetically as possible would suffice to cool the secondary enough... of course the energy captured by the dummy load would still have to be dealt with...
Knock yourself out (or, more specifically, this). P

It's a fun site overall, in spite of its geocities styling, so it's worth a look.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#26 - 2011-10-17 19:18:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Hmm... seems horribly inefficient when compared to convective cooling... I wonder if some sort of a dummy load to suck out the most energy kinetically as possible would suffice to cool the secondary enough... of course the energy captured by the dummy load would still have to be dealt with...
Knock yourself out (or, more specifically, this). P

It's a fun site overall, in spite of its geocities styling, so it's worth a look.


Heh, that's pretty cool. This made me giggle:

Quote:
However, since by their nature radiators are difficult or impossible to armor, radiators will probably be the first thing shot off by hostile weapons fire. Then you have about thirty seconds to scram the ship's reactor before the engineering section turns into a sea of molten metal.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-10-17 19:32:14 UTC
You should be able to radiate heat though space fine. That's how the heat from the sun gets to the planet from the sun. The heat from fission reactors has to go somewhere, hense minmatar ships have radiators, only they are unlike house "radiators" as they are designed to convect heat not radiate it. Technically anything dark, hot and has lots of surface area should radiate heat as IR fine, no matter if there is a vaccuum.
Ramacliv
Ramacliv's IRA
#28 - 2011-10-17 19:32:31 UTC
All of you are wrong. That's part oft the ships still. We all know Minmatar pilots run off booze. We need that much production in a day just to get out of bed.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#29 - 2011-10-17 19:39:50 UTC
Zofe Stormcaller wrote:
You should be able to radiate heat though space fine. That's how the heat from the sun gets to the planet from the sun. The heat from fission reactors has to go somewhere, hense minmatar ships have radiators, only they are unlike house "radiators" as they are designed to convect heat not radiate it. Technically anything dark, hot and has lots of surface area should radiate heat as IR fine, no matter if there is a vaccuum.


The heat from the fission reactor needs to be first converted to work, otherwise what's the point of having the reactor in the first place. So, you have a primary coolant system, fully shielded, where the core resides. This uses convection (liquid) to transfer the heat through a heat exchanger to a secondary system (a separate shielded chamber outside the primary), where the secondary coolant, now converted to steam, is used to drive turbines, etc. Some heat is lost in the transfer of energy to kinetic, but a lot remains in the secondary coolant. This is what needs to be dealt with.

The problem with radiators, like that article Tippia pointed out states, is that all you have to do to effectively kill the ship is shoot the radiators. If you remove the ability of the ship to lose the heat, well... it's either scram the reactor or wish you did before you died.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-10-17 19:48:04 UTC
MinSebsis wrote:
The're called "wingy bits"!

Barakkus
#31 - 2011-10-17 19:52:50 UTC
Janos Saal wrote:
Salx wrote:
Why do most Minatar ships have Solar Panels on them? Are they powered by the sun or something?

Assuming they are solar panels, what the **** else would they be sued for you imbecile?


Are you like a lawyer or something?

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#32 - 2011-10-17 20:13:13 UTC
Now i don't recall the exact details, but according to lore those panels actually are supposed to capture some particles from space, then accelerate them through the engines in order to propel the ships.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#33 - 2011-10-17 20:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
This is not solar panels. This is cooling radiators for their old nuclear reactors.
That wouldn't work very well... can't transfer heat that well into a vacuum.
That's why they're so big and frilly — more surface to radiate from.


there are zero particles in a vacuum, hence zero ways to radiate heat. space does have some particles in it, but they are so few and far between that it would be meaningless. heat is vibrating particles. they aren't part of a radiator system. they are either solar panels, heat *gatherers* (absorbing sunlight), or just there for the same reason everything in EVE looks the way it does - because an artist thought they looked cool.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#34 - 2011-10-17 20:23:36 UTC
Zofe Stormcaller wrote:
You should be able to radiate heat though space fine. That's how the heat from the sun gets to the planet from the sun.


actually, it isn't heat in space. it is electromagnetic radiation (light) agitating particles in the atmosphere / surface / you (vibrating particles).
Razin
The Scope
#35 - 2011-10-17 20:32:20 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
...stuff...

You need to reveal this useful secret to the aerospace industry as they've been building spacecraft with them useless radiators all this time. That thar's some serious weight saving idea you got.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#36 - 2011-10-17 20:38:05 UTC
Razin wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
...stuff...

You need to reveal this useful secret to the aerospace industry as they've been building spacecraft with them useless radiators all this time. That thar's some serious weight saving idea you got.


modern spacesuits have cooling systems because body heat builds up forever in a vacuum.
Razin
The Scope
#37 - 2011-10-17 20:41:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Razin wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
...stuff...

You need to reveal this useful secret to the aerospace industry as they've been building spacecraft with them useless radiators all this time. That thar's some serious weight saving idea you got.


modern spacesuits have cooling systems because body heat builds up forever in a vacuum.
Because to have a radiator hanging off your suit (and pointed in the correct direction) would present some serious issues during a typical EVA.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#38 - 2011-10-17 20:45:44 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
This is not solar panels. This is cooling radiators for their old nuclear reactors.
That wouldn't work very well... can't transfer heat that well into a vacuum.
That's why they're so big and frilly — more surface to radiate from.


there are zero particles in a vacuum, hence zero ways to radiate heat. (...).


ShockedShockedShocked

Radiation doesn't works like that. EVERYTHING radiates energy as long as it's above absolute zero, and the chances to radiate are proportional to temperature. Space radiators are devices designed to transport heat through thermal conductivity and sometimes convection, and then radiate it into space through radiation.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#39 - 2011-10-17 20:48:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Yeah... how exactly are nuclear reactors cooled again?
In space? Through radiation.

Indeed.

As an early pre-EvE technology example just take a look at the wingy bits on ISS.

There's 2 types of them, one set is generating energy, the other set is radiating excess heat.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#40 - 2011-10-17 20:56:20 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Razin wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
...stuff...

You need to reveal this useful secret to the aerospace industry as they've been building spacecraft with them useless radiators all this time. That thar's some serious weight saving idea you got.


modern spacesuits have cooling systems because body heat builds up forever in a vacuum.


No. They have such systems because heat builds up faster than what it can be radiated. It's a volume vs surface thing: astronaut volume (body) generates heat faster than what the skin/suit surface can radiate it while preventing the astronaut from cooking if exposed to direct sunlight (wihtout insulation, heat would move quickly in both directions... inside too utside, but also outside to inside, and you don't want that under direct sunlight within Earth's orbit).

Otherwise radiation is proficent enough to keep ships uncomfortably cold unless they are warmed up. You could go and ask the crew from Apolllo XIII how fast was heat "bulding up" inside their powerless spaceship in the way back home. I'll give you a clue: without their heating systems, the moisture from their breath ended up freezing on the walls...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you