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Fittings for a widow and a manticore
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Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-10-08 23:41:22 UTC
So I am pretty new to eve....i feel and have a lot to learn. But i love flying the ships that have the cloaking ability. I would like to know what you guys would recomend to outfit a widow? I think i have a pretty good build for a manticore but any tips and tricks or pointers on how to really untilize the cloaking tech would be greatly appreciated.
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#2 - 2012-10-08 23:48:00 UTC
Umm...

Manticore is a bomber. Its a frigate hull, with a CovOps cloak, and shoots torps and bombs.

Widow is a Black Ops. Its a battleship hull, with a run-of-the-mill cloak, and shoots whatever it feels like fitting, aside from bombs.


Widow is a HUGE waste of ISK, if you expect it to do "cloaky" stuff. BlOps do not "sneak" like you'd hope they would. Since they have to remain visible to warp, you're gonna have to get staged somewhere, cloak up, and then wait for prey to come to you.

Black Ops, in general, are just for bridging CovOp craft into a battle somewhere. Then they dock up and remain useless.
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-08 23:54:44 UTC
Thank you Marcus,

That is what I have been finding out, so whats the benifit for flying a widow?

I have flown my manticore but it doesnt feel very effective....ive taken her out to null sec to shoot at some bots....and barely escaped, i may have taken 1 or 2 out with my bombs but thats it.

The widow while looking cool doesnt feel very effective......i feel my scorpion is a more effective battleship

So i guesse what i want to find out is what is the proper and effective way to fly these 2 vessels

And how to incorperate cloaking into how i play eve lol
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#4 - 2012-10-09 00:00:49 UTC
Black Ops are special, in that they can make a bridge to a Covert Cyno. CovCyno do not show up on Overview, like a regular Cyno would.

So the idea is to sneak something cloaky like a Force Recon (Falcon) into a hostile system. Recon finds a deep safe off dscan range, and lights the CovCyno. Widow makes a bridge, which allows bombers, cloaky T3, and more Force Recons to jump into the system. They cloak up, hunt around, and gang **** targets.

The Black Ops, however... has limited combat use. Its like a BS, only with somewhat weaker resists (you'd expect a T2 to have better resists), does weaker DPS, can't fit a Covert cloak (so it can't warp cloaked)... its a Stargate with a pilot, and little more than that.

If you live in low/null, you can have the Widow go forward with the group. But it'll probably just cloak in place and wait for the gang to need a ride back home. Then someone back at home would light another CovCyno, and everyone would bridge back.

There are videos online, gangs of Black Ops hotdropping targets. While that looks cool and all, its a very expensive form of PvP. In almost every regard, a plain BS will do the job better.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-10-09 00:17:12 UTC
Both ships are support-role ships that do not fare particularly well solo.

The Manticore is a bomber, which means it provides heavy damage support against large targets, with the surprise of a covops cloak. The damage comes in the form of either torpedos (single target, high dps) or bombs (AoE, high instant damage). Both of these do very poor damage to small (in sig radius) or fast targets. It can be used for ratting in nullsec, but you need a lot of care, target painters, and good skills. In PvP, you need to be very careful in case of frigates or drones, both of which will shred you.

The Widow is a black-ops battleship, which is an upgraded Scorpion. It can still sort of jam, like the Scorpion, but cloaks do not slow it down by anywhere near as much (and in fact can speed it up), and it can open covert ops portals to jump bombers, recons, or other black-ops battleships across multiple systems for sudden ganks. For straight up battleship combat, you're better off with the Scorpion.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-10-09 00:56:07 UTC
Thank you both,

so pretty much not as cool as a kilingon war bird lol :P

Well it looks like i need to find some people in eve that will allow me to fly my widow and manti in a manor that is best suited for what the ship was designed for.
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#7 - 2012-10-09 01:14:07 UTC
Petrus wrote:
and it can open covert ops portals to jump bombers, recons, or other black-ops battleships across multiple systems for sudden ganks.

Black Ops have their own jump drive, for moving the ship itself. It would cost far more fuel to "bridge" another Black Ops. Plus the Black Ops can jump directly to a regular Cyno or a CovCyno.

As for playing Klingon... I'd suggest a cloaky T3.

I used to own a Redeemer (Amarr Black Ops). Then I discovered just how limited their usefulness can be.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-10-09 01:18:10 UTC
Marcus Gideon wrote:
As for playing Klingon... I'd suggest a cloaky T3.

AFAIK the Proteus is the best at this.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-10-09 02:52:23 UTC
AFAIK ?
and why would you suggest Poteus over the tengu?
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#10 - 2012-10-09 02:55:59 UTC
AFAIK = As Far As I Know

Proteus can get a wicked buffer. And Tengu is "supposed" to get hit hard with the next patch. So skilling up to fly something that may suck in the very near future may not be a good idea. =)
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-10-09 03:19:52 UTC
AH thank you guys!
well i pull the trigger on a Poteus, so now itll be 46 days :D
but im excited!!!!
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#12 - 2012-10-09 03:30:23 UTC
Make sure to fit it with faction and officer mods.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-10-09 03:33:53 UTC
what would you suggest and why would you suggest that over tech 2 gear?
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#14 - 2012-10-09 03:46:22 UTC
Faction and Officer perform a lot better than T2 in almost every instance...

However, they also cost a LOT more in almost every instance.

And Bill just wants to see you explode so he can collect all the Faction and Officer loot.
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-10-09 04:27:17 UTC
hahahha, i mean if your PVP wouldnt tech 2 be a more viable option?
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-09 07:36:31 UTC
No not when you fly a billion isk ship that can dictate combat.

Manticore Steath bomber is the best Blockade Runner Ganker, if you have patience. Lots o highsec dwellers run PI just in low sec. The usualy pretty hard to catch since they use blockaede runners that are all but uncatchable in low sec. Except when they are loading at a Custom Office or undocking.

The Manticore has lots of mid slots, so it can use the Propper E-war mods to tackle the Blockade runner and due to the fact bombers have no targeting delay when uncloaking you've a fair chance to catch them of guard. (after a zillion runs at a C.O. you get sloppy)


Protheus is a Great PvP ship, though don't set the Tengu aside just jet, HAM Tengu's will shine after the winter expension, and can come close to the DPS of the Protheus at longer range, and is especialy usefull in PvE.

Widow is a small fleet ship, that has is uses, but if you're still new, forget about it for a while, it takes about 1,5 years dedicated training to fly that ship propperly.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#17 - 2012-10-09 14:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dibblerette
Proteus can decloak on your face and still deal 500 or so DPS with a 100k EHP buffer, iirc. Only problem is the targeting delay, so if you're fighting something sort of small, you'll need to pulse your MWD and physically bump your target out of alignment while you wait to be able to properly tackle them.

EDIT: This is where much of the finesse comes in, after actually finding a target. Just be aware, losing a T3 means you lose a level in a random subsytem skill, which means you should be looking at 3-4 days to fly the ship at full capacity again.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-10-09 15:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
Kirk Stahli wrote:
hahahha, i mean if your PVP wouldnt tech 2 be a more viable option?


Not for a T3 ship, since the ship itself is already so pricey. And you loose skill points if / when you die in one.

PVPing in T3's is not for newbies. If you wanna PVP as Gallente, skilling up for a Brutix, Myrmidion or Talos is one heck of a lot better. They all pack more of a punch then most ships in EVE and they can handle some pain as well. 800 DPS+ and the Brutix with good skills can dish out a ridicilous 1100 with overload and t2 fit. And with these you can loose 30-40 for every Proteus you can afford to loose.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#19 - 2012-10-09 17:19:53 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
Kirk Stahli wrote:
hahahha, i mean if your PVP wouldnt tech 2 be a more viable option?


Not for a T3 ship, since the ship itself is already so pricey. And you loose skill points if / when you die in one.

PVPing in T3's is not for newbies. If you wanna PVP as Gallente, skilling up for a Brutix, Myrmidion or Talos is one heck of a lot better. They all pack more of a punch then most ships in EVE and they can handle some pain as well. 800 DPS+ and the Brutix with good skills can dish out a ridicilous 1100 with overload and t2 fit. And with these you can loose 30-40 for every Proteus you can afford to loose.

As he said, "PVPing in T3's is not for newbies."

Do NOT fly a Proteus until you have all relevant skills up to MINIMUM level IV, preferrably V. At ~500M just for the hull, you don't want to be flying the things in PVP where it's pretty much guaranteed that you're going to lose one eventually when you don't know how to PVP well.

If anything, I'd suggest starting with just stealth bombers for a while, if you insist on playing cloaky ships. You quickly learn who you can engage, and who you can't in a stealth bomber, since if you make a mistake and let a stiff space-breeze hit you, your ship is gone.

Honestly, the best choice are some crapfit T1 frigates, keep flying (and losing) those until you kinda know what you're doing. Then do the same with crapfit destroyers. After a while, your skills will get better, and you'll be a better pilot. That's when you can think about doing things like flying incredibly expensive ships.

But ALWAYS, ALWAYS remember the number one rule of EVE: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Or is the number one rule that everybody wants to kill you? Whatever.
Kirk Stahli
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-10-10 01:04:18 UTC
Thank you everyone for the help i really appreciate it, well i did loose the widow, but but i took 4 ppl down in the process lol

but i definatly learned that solo prlly isnt the best way to go, and hunting in gangs will yield better results lol
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