EVE General Discussion

And with crimewatch 2.0, that "equilibrium" is being ****** with yet again.


If miners had fitted a tank and done a few minor behavioral modifications, this "epidemic" wouldn't have gone on for as long as it did, and it wouldn't have gotten as bad as it did. They were being horrible sheep just standing around, staring dumbfoundedly at you as they got ganked, while the rest of the world was telling them what to do to fix it.

Now, see, this is what a ragepost looks like.

1) Miners activate modules on objects that are also defenseless and do so for profit without resistance.

2) Another new thing is the aggression mechanics changes.

3) I already live there and PVP there quite successfully, thanks for your concern though.

4) Obviously PVP is a risk. I've lost billions to awesome pvp. Strange that miners would do the same for stupid PVE which fuels runaway deflation.

That wasn't a proposal to "increase risk", that was a proposal to "completely **** over nullsec so nobody wanted to live there". I counter-proposed fixing the sov system, fixing the industry etc so people actually lived there, so roaming gangs would actually be viable again and thus increase risk, but you kept harping on and on about some weird idea about making POSes killable in a single go.

It was a terrible proposal, and everyone told you why, repeatedly.


This is you substituting facts with fiction.

We don't just believe that so many people could be so stupid.

We have empirical data that irrevocably demonstrates that so many people could be (and in fact were) precisely that stupid.

They were precisely that stupid.


So the ganker flubbed the gank, guess what? He's in the red. Bringing more ships just means going even further into the red, and this is not sustainable in the long run.


The gankers were using the optimal strategy for a concord-inhabited area of space, where as much damage must be laid to bear on the target within x seconds as possible, whereas the miner was using the optimal strategy for space where no gankers existed.

One strategy is correct, one strategy is deluded. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which is which.

More CFC than others, but not strictly CFC if you scroll up.

Also, you did it again. That fallacy. You can't lay off it.

Finally, I'd hardly call folks with training to access unlimited risk-free wealth (allegedly impervious to deflation, according to you and others) "the weak and the poor."

I would call them "the stupid, timid, and unadaptable" though. Because that's precisely what their behavior warrants.

Those are qualities traditionally associated with success in Eve Online by neither the "nullsec zealots" of the CFC nor the more moderate developers at CCP.

That's what I said.

.......become true to your socialist viva le revolution ideaology..... You know, rob the rich to pay the poor.

...... instead of preying on the weak like a raging right-winger.

Anyway chaps. Been nice chatting.

I'm off to do real work in a real world where despite the morons, the psychos and the wars, I can still walk down the street to do my job without needing a kevlar vest or a police escort.

For truth, decency is my tank and I don't need to be a moron to make my money. I hope you all do the same today/tomorrow.

Au revoir

Hell ******* yes I do.


We have, repeatedly, for quite a while now, detailed several things that miners could have done, before the barge/exhumer buff, to protect themselves, which were effective, some of which having a practically 100% success rate of avoiding ganks if the miner was at all paying attention.
Miners still die by the dozens every day. So yeah, there's an awful lot of stupid people out there.


The tank is a placebo. No ganker is going to put up the effort of ganking somebody with a tank. The point is not to survive a gank attempt, because if they really want to gank you they can no matter how much tank you have. You could be mining in a Damnation with T2 1600mm plates, Corpum A-type energized membranes, T2 trimarks, a full slave set, and an off grid Legion booster, and someone would figure out how to gank your 800k EHP mining ship if they really, really wanted to. They might even make a profit off your T2 salvage and A-types, if they dropped.

The entire point is that when you significantly reduce the profitability of ganking, you significantly reduce any incentive to gank in the first place. The end result is that miners are safer because of nothing at all that they did, but an action by CCP on part of a group who did absolutely nothing to protect themselves.

People tanked their exhumers before the patch, and I'd invite you to show me a killmail of an exhumer that fitted an actual tank and was ganked. You won't be able to, because gankers see the tank and move on to easier targets. Their optimization includes looking for targets that are stupid. The mining barge EHP buff is a buff to stupidity and nothing more. A PROPER buff would have been the addition of CPU and PG to allow fitting of more shield extenders and invuln fields, but CCP seems to have recognized that even that enormous handout wouldn't have led many of you to take measures to protect yourselves.