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New Support Cruisers
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Shane Joven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-10-07 04:44:04 UTC
The new Support cruisers, specifically the Osprey. Up to what Class worm hole would it be usable in?

I wanted to get my group of friends that are mostly low skill point Pilots and Throw ourselves in a Class 3. Seems like its a nice medium.

Quote:
[Winter Expansion Osprey]:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 5 M (+1), 3 L, 1 turret (-2), 2 launchers
Fittings: 425 PWG (-50), 440 CPU (+165)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(+477) / 1000(+24) / 1450(+356)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+531.25) / 275s(-26.25s) / 5 (+2.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+47) / 0.59(+0.085) / 11230000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 20
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+12.5) / 350(+39) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+2)
Signature radius: 95 (-30)
Cargo capacity: 485
Nashuar Attor
Rat Kings Crew
#2 - 2012-10-07 05:58:49 UTC
Low skill pilots in a C3, you will probably die. Unless you have a lot of friends. And don't play with the sleepers. And no other corp is there already to hand you your a##.

You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-10-07 06:56:25 UTC
I don't see why two (new) Ospreys wouldn't be perfectly viable for both PVE and PVP in wormholes. For solo logi in C3 sites you will need the T2 resists and a bit of pimp, and either Gallente and Minnie one wich are currently better solo*, or then you need RR on the other ships to keep your Osprey alive.

Amarr and Caldari T2 logis need to work in pairs to keep them in cap, and I'm just guessing that this would be the case with the T1 versions as well without having played with the fits.

And yes, don't forget that wormholes are primarily a PVP environment.


.
MrEcloth
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-10-07 09:31:43 UTC
low sp players can do a wh but they need to be in bc and each member warps out when the sleepers beat through their buffer
I and my friends have done it, infact thats how we began and the payoff for a little frustration warping in and out to replenish cap and hps.... but to tell the truth that was when sleeper sites were most fun, edge of your seat all the time, we would have to set the sleepers that kept range between us and a celestal and warp at the distance they were from the ship on grid to that ships location so we could land within range to land our dps, before being forced to warp out again

alot more team work then we have going now all drakes all can tank all but the hardest sites,
we have used other setups in the past, but when you eventually do get ganked by that t3 fleet from a linked class 4-6 wh that just appeared it hurts alot less to lose drakes then say domi/apoc/somthing navy/tengu even ran a legion setup but all are just to costly to lose when u can do it in drakes. and pay off the loss of the whole fleet in a site or two

what i am trying to say is go do it, it'll be alot of fun and if u do some research u can minimize your losses.

go over tanked stay aligned and change your fits as u find things that work.

the more people you have that can tank the site the more u can have that don't need to be able to.

hit dscan! more is better
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-10-07 17:28:01 UTC
without seeing the final stats and putting it into something like EFT, I can't say for certain how high a class of WH you can use them in, mostly due to not knowing what kind of resists they can get. That being said, you will probably be able to use a pair of them to tank anything up to C3 sites, and you might be able to use 3 for C4 sites. I'm doubtful that they will have enough buffer to survive C5 sites.

-Arazel
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-10-07 19:51:31 UTC
I've seen people gathering sorta-newbs in cruiser fleets to run C1s I think. With proper T1 "logi" some will definitely go for it.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Judo Chopped
GET TO DA CHOPPER
#7 - 2012-10-08 08:35:24 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
without seeing the final stats and putting it into something like EFT, I can't say for certain how high a class of WH you can use them in, mostly due to not knowing what kind of resists they can get. That being said, you will probably be able to use a pair of them to tank anything up to C3 sites, and you might be able to use 3 for C4 sites. I'm doubtful that they will have enough buffer to survive C5 sites.

-Arazel


Running C3's and C4's might be possible with a fairly high SP character (especially the C4's) and some know-how - but new players attempting this will get crushed.

If you're new players, I would not go above a C2.

Why not ninja farm a C3 for a couple of hours and you'll see what I mean.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-10-08 16:46:34 UTC
Judo Chopped wrote:
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
without seeing the final stats and putting it into something like EFT, I can't say for certain how high a class of WH you can use them in, mostly due to not knowing what kind of resists they can get. That being said, you will probably be able to use a pair of them to tank anything up to C3 sites, and you might be able to use 3 for C4 sites. I'm doubtful that they will have enough buffer to survive C5 sites.

-Arazel


Running C3's and C4's might be possible with a fairly high SP character (especially the C4's) and some know-how - but new players attempting this will get crushed.

If you're new players, I would not go above a C2.

Why not ninja farm a C3 for a couple of hours and you'll see what I mean.


C3's are exceptionally easy - get an 800ish dps tank, be able to shoot stuff at the appropriate ranges, gather in the isk. These new mini-logi's will be very useful for this, though again, it remains up to testing to see exactly how useful.

To give an example, a fit that will be possible (or close to possible) after the patch will be this:

Highs
2 medium 'Regard' Power projectors
3 Medium S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Mids
1 10mn T2 AB
1 large shield extender
1 EM hardener
2 invulns

Lows
1 DCU 2
2 PDU 2 (not needed for pg, may swap to CPU mods if needed)

Rigs
2 Anti-thermal 1
1 Anti-kinetic 1

This ship with maxed skills will be able to run all these mods with 1 incoming cap transfer (note the bonus, counts as 2 currently), though to be more realistic most ospreys will need both incoming most of the time. Currently, with no skills, 1 of these repping another set up in the same way gets a 545dps tank. I would like to point out the bonus to shield transporter boost amount. At level 3 skills (not unreasonable), those 3 transporters are going to be moving as much reps as 4.5. Which means that the tank jumps up to around 800ish. To note, in C4 sites, I was able to run a 1 basi-1 nightmare pair, and the basi maintained a self tank of 800dps, and was able to keep itself alive as long as it kept moving.

Conclusion - these ships will be able to be used in WH's. They are going to be a bit squishy, but 2 of them will see any set of WH virgins through anything up to C3 sites, and possibly C4 sites. More than that and their lack of EHP will probably see them alphaed, but by the time anyone is looking to run C5 sites they damn well ought to have the skills to fly actual logi ships.

-Arazel
Sum Olgy
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-11 23:28:12 UTC
I don't see this at all.

Even when nerfed, the Drake will be plenty able to run C1-3's, as it is now. And any player who's able to fly an Osprey will already be flying Drakes.

I just don't see why any fleet would take 2 characters away from DD duties? Flying 2 Ospreys is just a waste of two ships worth of DD at that level. And time is *everything* when you're running wormhole anoms.

So what have I missed?
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#10 - 2012-11-13 13:37:58 UTC
Sum Olgy wrote:


So what have I missed?


The ability to step outside the comfort zone and try new things.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-13 13:58:17 UTC
Hmmm this could be really interesting. I wonder if people will be more willing to fight since they have these cheap logi ships to use...?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2012-11-13 14:30:07 UTC
Sum Olgy wrote:
I don't see this at all.

Even when nerfed, the Drake will be plenty able to run C1-3's, as it is now. And any player who's able to fly an Osprey will already be flying Drakes.

I just don't see why any fleet would take 2 characters away from DD duties? Flying 2 Ospreys is just a waste of two ships worth of DD at that level. And time is *everything* when you're running wormhole anoms.

So what have I missed?



Every pilot who is flying a Drake is already away from DD duties

.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-14 03:21:11 UTC
Sum Olgy wrote:
I don't see this at all.

Even when nerfed, the Drake will be plenty able to run C1-3's, as it is now. And any player who's able to fly an Osprey will already be flying Drakes.

I just don't see why any fleet would take 2 characters away from DD duties? Flying 2 Ospreys is just a waste of two ships worth of DD at that level. And time is *everything* when you're running wormhole anoms.

So what have I missed?


Instead of taking that superbrick drake with no damage mods, no AB, no painters, etc, you can swap it with a 3bcu, full pvp fit drake (ok, maybe swap the point with a painter if you don't actually plan to be able to engage in random pvp). Or you can have a pair of ospreys supporting some of the rebalanced cruisers. Or use cyclones/tornado's/naga's instead of drakes. You know... actual dps ships? Or swap to armor and toss a talos on the field to kill frigs, and oracles to blast everything else. Or step it up to C4 WH's, even though you can't fly actual logi's.

So yes, you will still be able to do C1-C3 sites with solo drakes, etc. However, if you have a group of 4 people, 2 actual highdps ships and 2 of these logi's will do significantly more dps, and clear sites significantly faster than the standard drake. Heck, for some of these ships you can use, you can do 2 logi's and 1 dps ship, and still complete sites faster than 3 drakes.

Maybe you should consider actually flying with other people in a WH instead of only flying your solo drake... you may even enjoy the experience.

-Arazel
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#14 - 2012-11-14 05:50:40 UTC
When BUGRY was in wormholes (and had members, lol) and we lived in a C4 Black Hole (don't you judge me!) we would roll 4 DPS Geddons and 2 Guardians to crush the C4 sites, because not everyone could fly RR Tengus - nor did they want to. Plus, with a hot MWD you could burn into range for the bleen way faster than normal. Add a TP/Web armor Huginn and it was pretty efficient...for C4s. In a Black Hole.

Scale this down to 4 Harbys and 2 Augorors, and you've got a viable DPS fleet for C3's with organic logi. You're pushing 3200 DPS, can concentrate on MWDing after the sleepers instead of having them come to you, and can get capped up when neuted. Sounds ideal to me. Plus, if anyone even thinks of PVPing you just made their life more difficult than sitting around in 6 Drakes (which is about 2400 DPS, i may point out).

You could also roll AF gangs with logi frigs in C3's and below (yeah...you can). RR AF's are very doable, and with the new logi cruisers or frigates, will be even easier.

Drake is the clitoris of w-space - every **** has one - but that doesn't mean it is the most efficient, engaging, exciting or worthwhile way to do sites. I have experimented with all sorts of stuff, some has worked well, others have been so-so, but T1 logi cruisers are going to be awesome for newer players without mountains of ISK or ancient skill queues or established hierarchies to learn from.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~