Intergalactic Summit

Recently. I was involved in quite a heated discussion in the Summit 's public link. Various points were raised, but one, in particular, I would like to focus on:

The Republic is asking the Empire (and by extension ,the Kingdom), to dismantle its social order -- but not offering anything in return. In essence, they wish us to commit cultural suicide purely for their benefit.

It was then argued that the Empire and Kingdom forced the Matari to do precisely that for a thousand years. I agree, to an extent: recorded history cannot simply be ignored or dismissed. The Kingdom and Empire are certainly not blameless, nor will I pretend otherwise.

We come, then, to the crux of the problem: the Republic wants us to end slavery, and free our slaves -- but what's in it for us if we do? What do we get in return for plunging ourselves into economic and societal chaos?

When I asked this question during the debate, the response from at least one party was that our economic situation is none of their concern; that we should be expected to dismantle our entire society, and destabilize our economy, and get nothing in terms of support or assistance -- except the Republic's gratitude.

So, I restate: what's in it for us?

Are the Matari willing to offer economic support while we make the transition? Are they willing to reopen diplomatic relations if our government makes a sincere effort to enact reforms? Can the Matari, in fact, bring anything to the table that would make such an immense and costly effort on our part worthwhile?

So far, the answers appear to remain a firm 'no'.

I think the Shakor's warmongering regime made that pretty clear during its reign; its racism, affinity towards genocide and policy of total destruction of anything amarrian makes that a pretty straightforward answer.

If you'd prefer a more empirical answer, what has the Republic given to the Empire when her Higness 'freed' the 9th generation?

Republicans are a pack of wild dogs; offer them an olive branch and they'll want the whole tree next.

Ms. Meiyi, you must understand, releasing all the slaves would likely destroy the Republic as well as the Empire.

The Republic simply lacks the resources to handle a population influx of that magnitude, the situation is fractious right now, just from the release of the 9th generation slaves. The presence of those people has caused tremendous instability, both social, and economic. Frankly, the republic cannot handle the people they have. Millions are living in refugee camps, border colonies are left to fend for themselves while the republic devotes its military to an unwinnable war. Followers of the Amarr religion are oppressed and left in slums, completely unrepresented in government until they throw away the culture they were raised in to accept one that has not been the norm for almost 800 years.

Why is the Republic government doing this? Because they have constructed their entire system of values off of being anti-Amarrian and nothing else. The actions they take betray them. They don't care for their own people, they don't care for the traditions they say they strive to uphold. They launch raids into Amarrian territory to 'free' more and more people while the people they have already freed, the people whose best interests they supposedly serve, are left to rot in filthy camps. Those in power will accept nothing less than the complete destruction of the Empire and the freeing of the slaves despite the fact that the Republic cannot win a protracted war with the Amarrians, and even if they could, the resulting influx of people would result in mass starvations, riots, and likely a complete collapse of the social order within a month or two.

The warmongering hardline stance against the Empire that the Republic takes is pure suicidal foolishness. "Until all are free" right? Free to live in slums? Free to starve to death? Free to be mugged for a loaf of bread? Free to poverty, disease, and abandonment by their supposed saviors?

And to the 'tribalists' that say none of this will happen, that the people are better than that? I've seen it happen. I've watched the food riots. My planet was mostly depleted of mineral resources, thus republic interest in it waned. No one in government cared enough to even pay for the finishing of the terraforming so that we could fend for ourselves. People were starving, robbing each other for food, order was breaking down for months and the republic government just stood by and let it happen. It took military action by the Angel Cartel to stop the chaos. And as for the argument that the Skarkon incident was during the Midular era, nothing has changed. Skarkon is still impoverished, people are still starving to death. You 'come for your people' to free them? Well We're supposed to be your people too, though honestly, with the track record of things, I don't think we want your help anymore.

I would wager that the soul cannot progress much if the body starves and withers. A practical concern, at the very least.

I go away for three weeks and suddenly we're the bad guys..

Have any of you thought that maybe this entire problem could have been avoided by the Amarr not taking slaves in the first place?

How many problems could that have avoided I wonder..

Well gee, no ****.

However, that was 700 years ago. The situation has changed. The damage cannot be undone just be reversing the situation, and fighting tooth and nail for the freeing of all the slaves is destroying the republic. This is an ideological conflict, and the Republic cannot afford the luxury of waging an ideological war while their own population suffers. Who is morally right simply does not matter. Ideology means little when you can't feed your people. The current stance towards the Amarrians makes their slaves more important than the already freed people living within the republic.

To be perfectly honest, I have no interest in arguing. Enjoy your semantics, angel.

Keep doing... whatever it is you do. Actually, there's a point. What do you do? Why do you even care about this discussion? You already said how you don't want anything to do with the republic.

According to a Gallente friend of mine, in a just nation each man owns the fruits of their own labour.

So now the Amarr sit in palaces built on Matar backs, eat of grain planted and harvested by Matar hands, and profit of trading in products built by Matar, made from resources harvested by the Matar. Then they turn to us and say; the Matar has failed to provide shelter, food and employment to their citizens.

I say no. The Matari people have shelter, food an employment. The only problem is that you sit in our houses, eat our food and reap the rewards of our trade.

You are thieves, benefiting from the fruits of the labours of generations of others. You took it by force, and maintained it by force. You never laboured for it except by violence against those who did the labour. Then you say that you are righteous in taking by force the fruits of the labours of another. At least most pirates and thieves are honest in admitting that what they have taken is not justly theirs.

We have all been stolen from, as our ancestors have been stolen from. In a just society a man who has stolen must give back what he has stolen. If he cannot return it then he must pay reparations. If his victim is dead, then the thief has to pay reparations to the victims next of kin.

Thusly we, the children of generations of slaves, demand the Amarr pay fair retribution for the labour of every slave, to him or to his descendants. Then let us see how many of us go hungry or without shelter.

I might not care about the republic but the matari people are still my people.

Ah, so you advocate the building of a time machine as the solution?

Not, of course, that Shakorites actually WANT a solution to this problem, because that would destroy what passes for the status quo ante within the Republic, wouldn't it?

Hell, the Empress released all those of the 9th generation and older and what was the result? The Shakorites accused Her of trying to destabilise the Republic. They interpreted it as an ATTACK. Sadly I think that the Empire did too much damage to the Matari culture and all that some have left is revenge.

Pointless. Fruitless. Impossible.