EVE General Discussion

I think older players creating trial character to grief noobies is the edge case here. It was clear from the GM comments about the policy that they were monitoring the issue and it became apparent that some players were using the tactic to pad their killmails (presumably for epeen purposes). And the activities were coordinated and persistent, prompting the need for GM intervention. Versus being simple one off kills or the occasional gank by more experienced players.

I think with that in mind, we can ignore that case until such time as it does become a problem.

I still don't think this should be something that needs to be coded. It is clear from the policy that action will be taken for players wishing to engage in this activity on a large scale. I don't think players that have account action taken against them should be surprise at all when they are banned. They will receive the reason for their ban when it happens.

Analogies are always full of flaws, but I'll give one with the caveat that I'm not going to argue the merits of the analogy as it is instructive, not mechanistic.

Say I'm traveling down a road, and somehow I missed the speed limit posting. I do know that there is legal limited posted, and common sense can dictate appropriate behavior. However, if I wish to maintain a high rate of speed even according to my experience, I should not be surprised when the officer flips on the blue light. I can say all day that I didn't know the limit. But tell that to the judge. It is always the person's responsiblity to know the rules AND use good judgement when you are unclear.

The onus is good judgement. Players who have been actioned or will be actioned in the future have displayed poor judgement. Or is there no such thing as personal responsibility in the game?

I do agree that a perfect solution would be codified in the game, but that takes coding and development. Who knows, maybe the GMs can convince the crime watch team to come up with a solution that makes sense. But part of me hopes they don't. If someone can display poor judgement and disregard for community, then I think the game can do without them. I think we might be better served as a community by letting these miscreants pull the lever on their own guillotine.

So, from a Player's perspective, what's the difference between the alt of an established player (a legal target in rookie systems), and a rookie (not a legal target in rookie systems).

Remember that "Common Sense" is not Common,* since not everyone thinks in the same way. So any appeal to "use Common Sense" etc, is a terrible way to write a rule.



*adj. com·mon·er, com·mon·est
1.
a. Belonging equally to or shared equally by two or more; joint: common interests.

Griefers deserve to be banned without warning. Don't like it? Don't grief noobs. If someone is 1.5 months old and flying in a rifter and you go to grief them, that's probably a noob, and you will be banned.

I approve of this.

Feigning "hurr hurr define noob it's unfair" is BS. You're old on this game, you know what a noob is. Is someone three months old and flying around in a Thorax? Probably not a noob. Is someone freaking 23 days and in a Tristan. Probably a noob. Don't feign ignorance and hide behind "YOU HAVE TO DEFINE AT WIERNGILWENHG." Jerks.

What about someone 3 months old and flying a Hulk? You just said that a 3 month old is a newbie.

Define Newbie in a way that doesn't make Sorities cry.




That's the problem.

When in doubt, leave the noob alone. It's not complicated.

No. That would also protect non-newbies (please stop using "noob", that's a different concept) in newbie systems.

As Idris said, it's perfectly simple: if you can't be sure it's not a newbie, stay away.