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For all the FW peeps: "Dockblocking" - working as intended?

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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#21 - 2012-10-05 09:59:45 UTC
Station lockout is great. What needs fixing is the tier system, farming and the vulnerable bunker bug, but those changes are in the making anyway. Station lockout finally added some sense of consequence to FW. Also, make it true for high-sec as well please Twisted

Minmatar Balancing, 3 suggestions.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-10-05 11:29:32 UTC
I like being locked out, feels more like you really are in enemy territory, as opposed to just being RvB in lowsec
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#23 - 2012-10-05 12:43:15 UTC
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-10-05 13:06:23 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.

I like this, I really really like this.
I want to like this to the point that reality alters to make it so.
TekGnosis
Rules of Acquisition
#25 - 2012-10-05 15:27:30 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about keeping the lockout, but put NPC Capital fleets in space to support the Militia?

Make it so that Militia members can always get a waypoint for the roving fleet, and flying near the Mothership or Titan gets you targeted and hit with all 3 flavors of Rep, a cap transfer, and a dialog to Exchange LP for ammo and other consumables, which get dropped directly in your cargo, and pop out in a can if you are full.

You don't get all the benefit of being in a station, but you do get to stay in the fight.

I like this, I really really like this.
I want to like this to the point that reality alters to make it so.


I'm not even IN fw, and I support this product and/or service.

We need more dynamic content in EvE and roaming friendly NPC fleets are one way to achieve that. So much happens around these giant indestructible stations...
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#26 - 2012-10-05 15:40:30 UTC
Not being able to dock in enemy FW-space is a good mechanics, it provides some meaning to plexing and it motivates to decontest a system if it is your home base. This also contributes to PVP.

The major issues currently are that you can run plexes with no-gun-ships which will be adressed with next release. So I am looking forward to the next release.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-10-05 16:27:10 UTC
All I know is that the FW corps that used to live in FW low sec have moved to nearby non-FW low sec. That's probably not a sign of a good and working mechanic.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dan Carter Murray
#28 - 2012-10-05 18:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I wanted to get some input on a specific aspect of the Inferno change, the fact that stations lock enemy combatants our entirely.

Given the massive problem we have right now with FW corps and alliances quitting or relocated in response to the mechanic, I think its time to re-evaluate the value of this particular element of Faction Warfare.

The community has been very loud and clear that we need to get back to FW being a PvP-centric feature, where players enlist for the pew, and stay because they can afford to fight, as supposed to enlisting for the isk, and fighting if they have to (which is never.)

With that goal of increased pew pew in mind - in your experience, has "diagonal plexing" contributed to increased PvP? Is it a conflict driver, compelling you to take to the plexes to defend your space? Or does it make you not want to roam and PvP, because you can't dock and repair or reship?

Lets discuss the value of this mechanic, or alternatives if we decide it isn't helping to generate the conflict we so desperately desire these days.


The lockout mechanic is fine. The plexing is not.

The lockout mechanic raises the stakes (zarnak), but the farming destroyed the "raises the stakes" part.

The 125 non-farmer pilots in minmatar militia, 40 non-farmer pilots in caldari militia, 75 non-farmer pilots in gallente militia, and the 20 non-farmer pilots in amarr militia should be doing the plexing.

Also, LP for plexing should be nerfed to wtflow levels. I like the idea of plexing as a pvp mechanic, but it was a pvp mechanic before the lp.

lp nerf for plexing i was thinking 2500 for minor, 5000 for med, 7500 for major.

oh and the "all cruisers including tech 2 cruisers" medium plex...no...sorry...that's literally the worst idea since African witch doctors claiming that raping virgins helps you get rid of AIDS.

edit:

make tier level based 100% on the number of systems you own.

if a change were made to charge for docking then i'd rather see something like 1mil/2mil/4mil/8mil/no docking

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#29 - 2012-10-05 18:52:08 UTC
lol i read the title of the op wrong...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#30 - 2012-10-05 19:07:40 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Oh god. In before Cerain. Roll If you made it an upgrade feature it would be nice if for the only reason that I could dock and repair on a roam. Noone would stage out of a system out of fear that it would simply be upgraded and shut out. Other then that working as intended.


actually making it a system upgrade thing would work pretty nice...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#31 - 2012-10-05 19:26:29 UTC
i hate the fact that non FW can do plexes... this should stop as they just farm them all day...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2012-10-05 19:41:47 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i hate the fact that non FW can do plexes... this should stop as they just farm them all day...



Ummmm what? If you're not enrolled in FW, you can't earn LP or farm anything (except tags). I'm unaware of neutrals messing with plexes other than for ganking militia pilots.

if you're talking about FW characters that are alts of mains elsewhere farming plexes, there is nothing that can be done about that. It's impossible to block out character generated for income reasons, but that's besides the point. The goal should be not to restrict participation only to "real" FW members, it should be to make the gameplay such that everyone, alt or otherwise, can be caught and killed and provides a target rich enviroment for their enemy militia.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#33 - 2012-10-05 21:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i hate the fact that non FW can do plexes... this should stop as they just farm them all day...



Ummmm what? If you're not enrolled in FW, you can't earn LP or farm anything (except tags). I'm unaware of neutrals messing with plexes other than for ganking militia pilots.

if you're talking about FW characters that are alts of mains elsewhere farming plexes, there is nothing that can be done about that. It's impossible to block out character generated for income reasons, but that's besides the point. The goal should be not to restrict participation only to "real" FW members, it should be to make the gameplay such that everyone, alt or otherwise, can be caught and killed and provides a target rich enviroment for their enemy militia.



i dunno i have seen you in Nann and next door there are allways non WT or FW allies who are running plexes... and i dont think they are doing for the tags... they are usually in the system that starts with a "d" cant remember the name now though...

they are usually like two week old alts in incursus speed tanking the plexes...

perhaps they are from other FW like ammar or minnie?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dan Carter Murray
#34 - 2012-10-05 21:34:27 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Oh god. In before Cerain. Roll If you made it an upgrade feature it would be nice if for the only reason that I could dock and repair on a roam. Noone would stage out of a system out of fear that it would simply be upgraded and shut out. Other then that working as intended.


actually making it a system upgrade thing would work pretty nice...


I agree, but I would hope they change the tier level to be 100% based on systems owned.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Dan Carter Murray
#35 - 2012-10-05 21:34:58 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i hate the fact that non FW can do plexes... this should stop as they just farm them all day...



Ummmm what? If you're not enrolled in FW, you can't earn LP or farm anything (except tags). I'm unaware of neutrals messing with plexes other than for ganking militia pilots.

if you're talking about FW characters that are alts of mains elsewhere farming plexes, there is nothing that can be done about that. It's impossible to block out character generated for income reasons, but that's besides the point. The goal should be not to restrict participation only to "real" FW members, it should be to make the gameplay such that everyone, alt or otherwise, can be caught and killed and provides a target rich enviroment for their enemy militia.


He might be talking about non-FW players entering plexes without getting aggression.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Lili Lu
#36 - 2012-10-06 19:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
The lockout mechanic is fine. The plexing is not.

The lockout mechanic raises the stakes (zarnak), but the farming destroyed the "raises the stakes" part.

The 125 non-farmer pilots in minmatar militia, 40 non-farmer pilots in caldari militia, 75 non-farmer pilots in gallente militia, and the 20 non-farmer pilots in amarr militia should be doing the plexing.

Also, LP for plexing should be nerfed to wtflow levels. I like the idea of plexing as a pvp mechanic, but it was a pvp mechanic before the lp.

lp nerf for plexing i was thinking 2500 for minor, 5000 for med, 7500 for major.

oh and the "all cruisers including tech 2 cruisers" medium plex...no...sorry...that's literally the worst idea since African witch doctors claiming that raping virgins helps you get rid of AIDS.

Yeah, lockout is fine. You either get your **** out when you see the system being lost. Or you get a neutral alt to fly your **** out. Or you put it on the market if you don't think you'll get it back for a long time.

Farming is only possible though because of the flawed npcs in the plexes. That the game allows simple speed tanking (well particularly for the cal mil alts farming the gallente npc plexes) is the flaw that leads to the proliferation of bland noob alt farmers.

As for your numbers, what are you trying to portray? The Caldari milita as outnumbered by Gallente militia? Dotlan says very much the opposite. And if you are referring only to the folks on comms, well then if your numbers are worthy of credit, that doesn't say much for the two militias with lower numbers does it.

I do agree that lp should be increased for pvp activity and decreased for plexing.

Also, I very much agree that the proposals to change the ship restrictions on the plexes are essentially amounting to trying to fix maybe the one thing with current FW mechanics that doesn't need fixing. The current minor plexes are very good. The current medium plexes are good. Having tech I frigs and tech I cruisers get lots of use is great fun.

Even the distance to the buttons doesn't bother me. They could move them a little closer to the warpin beacon but not much closer. Definitely they should not put them right there with the beacon as was proposed.
Seraph Castillon
Death Metal Frogs
Ribbit.
#37 - 2012-10-07 16:29:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
All I know is that the FW corps that used to live in FW low sec have moved to nearby non-FW low sec. That's probably not a sign of a good and working mechanic.

-Liang


Well, if they got denied docking rights they kind of had to, didn't they. The lock out from stations is great. You either live in core systems that you defend continuously, or move a few systems away and spare yourself the hassle.

The mechanic adds rewards to holding space and will be even more important once defensive plexing starts giving rewards.

You can't come here and claim that FW space is uninhabited. Lots of corps still live in systems that are subject to the FW mechanics. Lots of corps successfully deal with them. If you can't stop your home system from being plexed down then you lack either activity or organisation and may have to move or join efforts with other corps.

There is nothing wrong with the system.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#38 - 2012-10-07 19:40:26 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#39 - 2012-10-07 20:08:15 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
working as intended


Exactly. It would be foolish to make final decisions based on impressions made months ago when we've had so much time in between to observe how it played out. Hence this thread asking for everyone's current impressions.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#40 - 2012-10-07 20:40:56 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
working as intended


Exactly. It would be foolish to make final decisions based on impressions made months ago when we've had so much time in between to observe how it played out. Hence this thread asking for everyone's current impressions.


CCP is fixing FW again and it does not work any better after fix. They always boost too much and then nerf too much.

Current system is basically working fine, only problem is too much isk payout and too easy farming with unskilled alts and there is no reason to defend.

Next patch will bring lot of reasons to defend, but attacking is too hard for farmers and maybe even impossible to take systems if enemy uses all tricks that is possible.

also CCP will remove driving force of reduced priced lp store and make attack plexing on tier 1 unprofitable.

With all these little changes we will end again on situation where no one plays FW system control war and plexing.