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Cloaking Revisited- game balancing- AFK cloakers

Author
Panchatantra
Bunnie Slayers
#1 - 2012-10-05 11:14:55 UTC
I am sorry to start a new thread but the ones I found were locked due to inactivity


What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.

An AFK cloaked cyno pilot in system can disrupt an entire days work for a 100 man corp, which is fine by me- but I want the other player to ACTUALLY be there.


This is what I am suggesting:

POS Module: Cloak Disrupt Pulse Array

Uses: Fuel X

Pulse: Every 5 min - timer visible in local CHANCE X on disrupting cloak (mitigated by cloaking skill)

Requirements: Soverignity X

Limitation: 1 per system, couple of hours fuel bay max.









Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#2 - 2012-10-05 11:37:50 UTC
Panchatantra wrote:


What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.



Did you even check the reason for those locked threads, someone makes the same proposat you did, then it gets shot down. The OP does not come back with anything and it goes inactive.

As for your idea, how it this even balanced?? you have even specificly stated that you believe that it should be one-sided, in your favor....

"No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up"

You are doing the same thing an AFK cloaker is, making his presence known in the system without being at the computer.

In addition to your proposal I suggest the additional balancing factor --->

With the 5 minute timer, every player who is docked up or in a POS shield gets pushed out into space.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#3 - 2012-10-05 12:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Now, if you are really trying to stop AFK cloaking, and not nerf all cloaks..... (because it sure seems like you simple want to nerf all cloaks), I propose the following.

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.

- Now cloaks are really cloaked.

- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.

- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel or to find targets. (like decloak or use probes)

- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.

- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#4 - 2012-10-05 12:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
yeah here we go, another afk cloaking thread.
afk cloakign is fine. Why? READ THE DAMN OTHER THREADS WHICH WERE CLOSED, why the f*ck did you think it requires a new one?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#5 - 2012-10-05 12:49:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
yeah here we go, another afk cloaking thread.
afk cloakign is fine. Why? READ THE DAMN OTHER THREADS WHICH WERE CLOSED, why the f*ck did you think it requires a new one?



Actually, the idea has never been shot down; just flogged to death, like you've started doing in this thread. Who flogs it? AFK Cloakers would be my guess.

As an often pilot of CovOps ships, I see no reason why cloaks shouldn't be capable of being disrupted under certain mechanics. I don't agree that it should be instant, 100%, easy, or even potentially available anywhere, but it should be available in some fashion aside from the Spiraling Inty method, or the Mass Drone + Can Blob method.

Those are only effective on gates when aligning or warping in anyway. Aside from that, cloaking is invulnerable.
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#6 - 2012-10-05 12:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Now, if you are really trying to stop AFK cloaking, and not nerf all cloaks..... (because it sure seems like you simple want to nerf all cloaks), I propose the following.

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.

- Now cloaks are really cloaked.

- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.

- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel or to find targets. (like decloak or use probes)

- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.

- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.


Yes, because removing CovOps cyno pilots from local when they're waiting to hotdrop, (mentioned argument is somewhat valid), a blob on people is good game mechanics. What?

..and btw, having CovOps recon'd in Wormholes for the most part, it's my my experience that you don't need local or probes to gather intel. Not even remotely.
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Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#7 - 2012-10-05 13:40:01 UTC
I propose a ban to AFK docking. People can hang out in a system in perfect safety and you never know when they are going to undock and shoot something!

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Panchatantra
Bunnie Slayers
#8 - 2012-10-05 14:40:03 UTC


Well if he is at his computer and happens to get decloaked - he can just re-cloak. No prober in the world can get him that fast.

And with the timer visible in local he can just plan his pos scouting a bit.




Panchatantra
Bunnie Slayers
#9 - 2012-10-05 14:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Panchatantra
Jint Hikaru wrote:




You are doing the same thing an AFK cloaker is, making his presence known in the system without being at the computer.



.



No I am not Shocked
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2012-10-05 14:45:06 UTC
It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.

We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you"
(Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)

You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.

Too much focus on how to remove AFK cloaking. You are addressing a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.

When this is done, it becomes reasonable to consider means to hunt cloaked vessels. NOT before this happens.

So long as people in a system magically know cloaked pilots are present with them, cloaked vessels should not be vulnerable to being hunted effectively.

Cloaking will be earned when cloaking awareness is earned. Balance must be maintained.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#11 - 2012-10-05 14:57:13 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:


If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.



Congratulations.

You just removed the problem of "AFK cloaking" and replaced it with a problem whereby you log on straight away after down time, cloak up for 8 hours totally AFK and wait till everyone is ratting/mining without knowing you're there and then you hot drop someone.

If someone is AFK cloaking just go to another system and the problem is solved.

There's no way around the other problem and would make cloaking way too powerful. Plus you could fit cloaking devices to normal ships, let some scout scout their way in for a 15 man gang then have your 100 ships decloaking and the gate and totally own them, then cloak up again.

Sometimes thinking about ideas first before blurting them out is good fun.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

HY RWO
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-10-05 15:21:26 UTC
Only thing AFK cloaking does is......... nothing. If someone is in your local don't rat/mine solo. Make a thing where more than one person is in the same place and can support other players (maybe you can call it a fleet).
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#13 - 2012-10-05 15:23:52 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:


If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.



Congratulations.

You just removed the problem of "AFK cloaking" and replaced it with a problem whereby you log on straight away after down time, cloak up for 8 hours totally AFK and wait till everyone is ratting/mining without knowing you're there and then you hot drop someone.

If someone is AFK cloaking just go to another system and the problem is solved.

There's no way around the other problem and would make cloaking way too powerful. Plus you could fit cloaking devices to normal ships, let some scout scout their way in for a 15 man gang then have your 100 ships decloaking and the gate and totally own them, then cloak up again.

Sometimes thinking about ideas first before blurting them out is good fun.

Can't tell if trolling or not.

Clearly, assuming you are serious, you have not been thinking about game balance if you are going to just hand out even more information on ships that supposedly are the hardest ones to find.

Let's take this from the top, shall we?

AFK Cloaking: They are not at their keyboard. To date, most weapons fired and cyno fields have been performed by players who are most definitely at their keyboard.

AFK Cloaking: This is a ship, (if we agree it is a covops cloak using variety), that has been balanced for use with a cloak. Again, no weapons fire is possible during the operation of the cloak, and many models have penalties involving time before targeting can even be attempted.

Those points established, let's go on to consider pilots who are periodically present, and currently hoping to numb system residents to their presence by having it as a constant item.

First of all, why are you paralyzed?
There is no license or guarantee that null sec residents will be able to freely PvE without threat of hostile intervention.

FIT A TANK. FORM FLEETS. WORK AS A TEAM.

I can see ships needing to be fitted for defense possibly being less than maximum yield, but this is not high security space.

If your corporation or alliance is unable or unwilling to secure your borders, then the burden of dealing with hostiles, cloaked or otherwise, falls upon you.
Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
#14 - 2012-10-05 15:24:27 UTC
Grow some courage.

Whining about someone in local, who may or may not be AFK, is just a sign that you're not suited to live in either low or null-sec.

If said cloaker is AFK, he is no threat to you
if he is not AFK, he's could be a threat, but apparently not a concern to the complainers.

Somehow, the nerf-AFK-Cloaking whiners feel unsafe in null sec, because there are other playes around.
Guess what.. EVE Online is a Multiplayer game and you are not supposed to be safe anywhere, not even in high-sec, let alone null sec.
Panchatantra
Bunnie Slayers
#15 - 2012-10-05 15:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Panchatantra
Its not whining- its opinion with a clear suggestion.

the opinion being that it should not be possible to have such an impact on other peoples gameplay while being afk- and that for 23h a day.

And I am specifically talking about a very limited chance to decloak someone in your own SOV so you can do something about it.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#16 - 2012-10-05 15:55:49 UTC
Panchatantra wrote:
Its not whining- its opinion with a clear suggestion.

the opinion being that it should not be possible to have such an impact on other peoples gameplay while being afk- and that for 23h a day.

And I am specifically talking about a very limited chance to decloak someone in your own SOV so you can do something about it.

How did they get into your sov in the first place?

Where is your gate defense? Do you have a cyno jammer active? What about a defense fleet?

Please tell me you are not fitting max yield exhumers without proper support.

The possible presence, worst case, of a cyno ship backed by a large capable fleet... I presume this is your concern.

Think about the teamwork and effort needed to pull that off.

Now, feel free to try and convince me that you should not need to match that level of commitment and teamwork, at least by the fraction needed to defend against it.

No hot drop to kill a 400million ISK ship is going to risk more than that, especially if you have ready the means to threaten that.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#17 - 2012-10-05 16:09:40 UTC
Panchatantra wrote:
Its not whining- its opinion with a clear suggestion.

the opinion being that it should not be possible to have such an impact on other peoples gameplay while being afk- and that for 23h a day.

And I am specifically talking about a very limited chance to decloak someone in your own SOV so you can do something about it.


nothing new with this, everything has been discussed 895824 times already, go read older threads instead of posting in this one.
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#18 - 2012-10-05 18:02:34 UTC
If we look at this In Game instead of IRL, it makes sense to let people AFK cloak.

Any cloaky scout that is spending extended trips in enemy territory would assumedly need to take a sleep break every once in a while. But the ship wouldn't disappear or stop cloaking when they go to sleep, would it?

It actually makes more sense this way than having a ship disappear when someone logs off.

Why not propose making all logged off pilots still show up in local? THIS idea makes more sense than yours.
HY RWO
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-10-05 19:48:50 UTC
Panchatantra wrote:
I am sorry to start a new thread but the ones I found were locked due to inactivity


What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.

This is what I am suggesting:
POS Module: Cloak Disrupt Pulse Array

Uses: Fuel X

Pulse: Every 5 min - timer visible in local CHANCE X on disrupting cloak (mitigated by cloaking skill)

Requirements: Soverignity X

Limitation: 1 per system, couple of hours fuel bay max.



Wouldnt this nerf anyone that is not AFK cloaked?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#20 - 2012-10-05 20:00:44 UTC
HY RWO wrote:
Panchatantra wrote:
I am sorry to start a new thread but the ones I found were locked due to inactivity


What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.

This is what I am suggesting:
POS Module: Cloak Disrupt Pulse Array

Uses: Fuel X

Pulse: Every 5 min - timer visible in local CHANCE X on disrupting cloak (mitigated by cloaking skill)

Requirements: Soverignity X

Limitation: 1 per system, couple of hours fuel bay max.



Wouldnt this nerf anyone that is not AFK cloaked?

Absolutely.

If you had someone covertly staked out at a station, for example, waiting and watching for an enemy / bounty target / big ISK target, then they would be likely concerned with this.

After 5 minutes covertly overseeing a gate for passage intel, you might suddenly appear in targeting range with no warning. Worse, you might be inspired to warp away before the time limit.

Players seeking to avoid cloaked vessels would know to travel at the time of the publicly displayed pulse, as scouts would be possibly too busy with their own trouble to properly relay intel.
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