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Nightmare or CNR?
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Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#1 - 2012-10-04 20:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Is the nightmare the lvl 4 blasto 1000 it's made out to be or would you go with CNR, skills are about the same for both including drone. The CNR sure cost less big +.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2012-10-04 20:36:10 UTC
If you're anticipating mostly/all BR/Sansha/drone missions or are willing to decline others the Nightmare will come out well ahead. You can throw in Serpentis missions into that mix as well.

However, if you're flying a decent number of Gurista and Angel missions the CNR is going to come out ahead. Mach will still do them better though.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#3 - 2012-10-04 20:39:57 UTC
Yeah mostly Guristas and angel cause my character resides in Caldari hi, Mach is off the table I got very low winmatar skills.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-04 20:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
CNR it is then. something like this will get you somewhere:

[Raven Navy Issue, lvl4]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x 5
Hammerhead II x5

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#5 - 2012-10-04 23:41:38 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
If you're anticipating mostly/all BR/Sansha/drone missions or are willing to decline others the Nightmare will come out well ahead. You can throw in Serpentis missions into that mix as well.

However, if you're flying a decent number of Gurista and Angel missions the CNR is going to come out ahead. Mach will still do them better though.


NM also does well against Mercs.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#6 - 2012-10-05 00:37:32 UTC
I use to have an Armageddon i do miss 1 shotting frigates
Big smile
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-10-05 15:26:00 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
If you're anticipating mostly/all BR/Sansha/drone missions or are willing to decline others the Nightmare will come out well ahead. You can throw in Serpentis missions into that mix as well.

However, if you're flying a decent number of Gurista and Angel missions the CNR is going to come out ahead. Mach will still do them better though.


NM also does well against Mercs.


And EoM.

Basically the Nightmare is pretty good vs everything except Guristas and Angels. It does enough Thermal with IN MUlti that it's tolerable vs Guristas if you don't do too many of them, but yeah, Angels... no.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-10-05 17:11:35 UTC
If you can get a NM, you can get a mach...
As far as I know, only the Tengu and vargur are comparable/better at lvl4 mission completion times.

The mach is faster, has selectable damage types, better scan res, more drone space, and won't cap out just from sustained firing like a NM may do.
- Of course, an autocannon fit uses a lot of ammo

The NM's biggest problem, IMO, is often inadequate tank.
The Tank=Gank principle is what is at work, but most EM weak enemies also deal EM damage, which isn't good for the NM's shields.
The NMs shields do better against Angels... but its got a lot less gank against them...
Hongus Gwag
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-10-05 18:50:38 UTC
I play in sansha space and I fly a nightmare. I comfortably pull in 100mil isk per hour, significantly more than my corpies doing the same thing in anything except macharials or certain marauders.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2012-10-05 19:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Verity Sovereign wrote:
If you can get a NM, you can get a mach...


Just the small matter of 2 battleship and one large gunnery skill to get Roll


EDIT: And the Nightmare has no issues at all tanking. If you can't tank a 1000 DPS gunship with 7 mids, don't blame the ship.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#11 - 2012-10-05 19:41:22 UTC
Well its 6 days and change for minmatar battleship so I can fly a mach, my problem is I don't know how to tactically fly it, I can use Large turrets np but again damn guristas like to orbit at long distance and it seems I would be chasing them all over, but how does one work this 100mn afterburner? Yeah just poorly skill with winmatar.
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-10-05 21:18:18 UTC
Correct me it i'm wrong here (and i know some of you arent shy doing so Big smile ) but isnt an adv. to the NM being able to sit at range, whereas with the Mach, you need to get up close and personal?
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#13 - 2012-10-05 23:18:29 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
If you can get a NM, you can get a mach...
As far as I know, only the Tengu and vargur are comparable/better at lvl4 mission completion times.

The mach is faster, has selectable damage types, better scan res, more drone space, and won't cap out just from sustained firing like a NM may do.
- Of course, an autocannon fit uses a lot of ammo

The NM's biggest problem, IMO, is often inadequate tank.
The Tank=Gank principle is what is at work, but most EM weak enemies also deal EM damage, which isn't good for the NM's shields.
The NMs shields do better against Angels... but its got a lot less gank against them...


This person. You should not listen to him.

Nightmare is pure win, wrapped in bacon and dipped in awesome sauce. The only rats that a Machariel is going to be better at killing are angels. The Machariel has very nice paper DPS but falloff means you will rarely get it all. Lasers don't have falloff issues, they have tracking issues, but if everything is dead before it gets under your guns, it doesn't matter.

The Mach is good. The Nightmare is better.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-10-06 10:42:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
If you can get a NM, you can get a mach...


Just the small matter of 2 battleship and one large gunnery skill to get Roll


EDIT: And the Nightmare has no issues at all tanking. If you can't tank a 1000 DPS gunship with 7 mids, don't blame the ship.


Meh, those BS skills don't take long to get, I was mainly referring to the cost.

as for the 1000 dps - yes, I acknowledged that gank can replace tank.

With 7 mids, its buffer can be pretty good, but its cap is still rather weak (once you factor in the energy consumption of those guns)

As for range... some missions you can use it, some you can't (and there's always 1400's for the mach, if your up to 50% falloff bonus isn't enough + lows with 2-3 TEs). SOme missions, given the gate distance, the mach was clearly superior. Overall, the Mach is much more flexible. Sure, the NM beats it in certain situations.

I've got both the mach, and the NM, but its been a while since I solo'd them, I've been dualboxing with a rattler that takes all the aggro, leaving my nightmare to do its awesome-sauce DPS with more TPs and TCs fitted. (and then I started incursioning again, and I've got T2 lasers, but not T2 projs... so the mach stays out)

But I preferred the mach for soloing lvl 4s, which seems to be what the question is about.
Fish Alabel
A Big Enough Lever
#15 - 2012-10-06 17:21:25 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Is the nightmare the lvl 4 blasto 1000 it's made out to be or would you go with CNR, skills are about the same for both including drone. The CNR sure cost less big +.


I have used both ships for lvl 4 missions and the NM is waaaay better than the cnr. A NM can one shot frigs and cruiser and can do this at 100km . And with 7mids it can tank everything.