Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ok, i've already responded to this

Apples and oranges, stop being so bad.

This is what I was getting at. Cruise have too much range for any necessary application, at least in my use. Torps are really limited in range, though.



I am just looking forward past the HML changes to see what could be a possible problem with range. My missioner's SNI has a lock range of 95ish km while the base flight distance of cruise are somewhere around 160ish (too lazy to check right now, anyone can chime in to give exacts cause I am at work) On a Raven thats around 250ish (EFT). I don't think a nerf would be even noticeable to those of us who use them. Then IF TE/TC ever effect them, no adjustments (or smaller ones) would be needed.

I don't use torps though because the range is just too low and the applied damage is also too low. With the change to Guided Missile Precision the applied damage should make them more useable. The range is still too low for me to consider. My Maelstrom can hit in double falloff to one-shot frigs in Level 4s at 50-60 km (T1 skills ammo and turrets). I don't think that asking for a Raven to hit out to 40-50km with torps and an SNI to hit out to 30-35km is too out of line with the short range Large Turrets.

A Ham Caracal (which should be viable post patch) will hit from around the same range as a torp Raven, maybe even exactly the same. That seems wonky to me.

I would assume that changes will be made to the BS missiles during BS tiericide, but I think with all the missile changes going on with Retribution, these small changes make sense.

Also, couldn't you just fold in TE/TC effects into the Launchers themselves? Or just a velocity boost, and make a new mid slot mod that with a scipt can either increase velocity at expense of lock time, or an applied damage boost for -range?

Edit: Above adding a +velocity stat torpedo, HAM, and rocket launchers could solve this problem. Rockets could then get a small buff as well, although I am not sure they need it as I don't use them. Anyone?

I obviously didn't read through 212 pages of comments, but wanted to give my opinion on the subject all the same.

I'm a pilot heavily trained towards medium sized missiles and all the appropriate ship hulls, both heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles alike. From my experience I can tell that heavy missiles are quite overpowered, especially in PvE use, and nerfing them is a good decision. The problem is that HAMs are quite far from being on par with other close range medium weapon systems. Sure, on paper they might look well balanced in terms of dps and range, but the reality is quite different. Medium pulse lasers, autocannons and blasters can fairly easily hit targets once they are properly scrammed and webbed, whereas HAMs are strugling to hit stationary cruiser sized targets, even with their current stats. Against frigates they are utterly pittyful, compared to guns which almost instapop every frig that stays still enough. With the t2 HAMs being heavily penalized in terms of damage projection and heavy missile damage reduced, missile pilots aren't really left with any competitive setups at all.

This same imbalance in damage projection can be seen with Battleship and Capital sized weapon systems as well, but I suppose that belongs into another discussion thread.

Infact, HAM have absolutely no problem hiting stationary cruiser or larger target. Explosion radius of HAM is 125. And web+scram target is way below the 150m/s explosion velocity of HAM too unless it use an AB. Difference with turret is that you can orbit your target at 20m, allowing for an amazing transversale velocity, and still hit your target for full damage.

On top of that, the proposed changes will apply the ex specific guided missiles skills to all missiles ; rocket, HAM and torp will become guided if you prefer. Which mean that these weapons will do full damage to almost anything they may hit.

BTW, a frigate that stay still in front of a gun barrel deserve to die, but they rarely do this and you can easily say that a frigate going under your gun won't ever be hit, going under the gun not being so troublesome when you are used to do it.

But just check the OP, HAM are being buffed severely.

My idea is you should put these acids in your head. HML *need* a nerf, and there is a hundred of pages explaining why; and not only in blobs. Hint : it's a long range medium size weapon system.

Umm... Fly one.

It works. It really does.

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All you number crunchers need to close your EFT's and locate your EVE launcher. Right now my entire corp is planning to basically abandon everything HML because frankly this nerf will make Drakes/Tengu's pointless.

Sure we'll find occasional use for a Falcon, but really with Turret Destabilizers becoming so versatile for EVERY weapon type the Amarr Curse/Pilgrim are looking better already. Plus THAT recon can actually carry a tank AND do offensive work with Neuts and drones \O/

Horray guys! Caldari will now be COMPLETELY obsolete. Don't worry. Minmatar will be next. CCP Fozzies work on the Hurricane basically kisses the Armor Cane good bye.

It's the same thing as a blaster mega, I've spent PLENTY of time in one. I don't remember ever getting it to hit for much over 40km, much less 70km.

Looking at it, with two scripted TCs you are sitting almost dead on optimal x2 fall with null at 70km. So your chance to hit an unmoving drake is sub 10% and your DPS is sub frigate levels.

Oh and Hey Issy.

Yes, but those neuts were the ONLY reason to plate a cane and use it over a Stabber Fleet. If killing frigs is your thing the SFI just does it plane better.

Which is great but really if you're sitting off 70k from a drake fleet in a blaster fitted ship the problem isn't with the drake it's with the FC who doesn't know what he's doing.

yes :)
But you need to realize why the are doing instead of crying like a baby about it
Then you will realize how lucky you have been to fly it