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Dev blog: Brains! NOM NOM!

First post First post First post
Author
Rengerel en Distel
#841 - 2012-10-04 12:35:06 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Adigard wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
darkness 4 wrote:
Running anoms and lvl 5 missions should also be checked using subcaps with fighters assigned from a carrier that's sitting at a safe.



This


Sadly we'll probably have to wait until the server's come back up (someday we hope?) else the answer may be something akin to:

"We ran the first room of the Score, L4, in a Tengu with fighter assistance. It was fairly easy, but we lost two fighters to rat aggro. We're okay with this."


Wait, so fighters are required in a L4 mission now? No, I am not testing that. Please stop. If you honestly have a mission or anomaly or something like that you want me to test please let me know and I will.


The ISDs are telling people the changes are on Buckingham, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Can you let us know one way or another?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#842 - 2012-10-04 12:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Null sec ganks of people running PvE content. This does have an effect on that no doubt. To be honest yes this means you will no longer be able to do this solo in a stealth bomber. I however just tested it and was able to tank six frigate NPC in my nemesis long enough for another character to jump into the system and warp 73au. I might be wrong but with the amount of EWAR that comes from frigates, and their hatred of drones, most people usually shoot them first when running these. The cruisers and BS never even looked at my Nemesis while I ganked the Raven. I also made sure the Raven was only running local tank so as not to generate any extra threat. If you want to be able to gank these guys solo, then yes it is going to mean you will need to bring something bigger. If there are a lot of frigate NPC on the field, well that will be difficult. We have accepted that as OK.


The idea of getting attacked by rats when you fairly caught someone ratting without them noticing is very bad design, and will defeat the purpose of the fixes to faction warfare plexes, because the rats are supposed to focus on the person capturing, not another person who comes in to kill them.

It also nerfs a form of PvP, and nerfing forms of PvP that have nothing wrong with them is not good. Don't do this. Please come up with something to fix rats up in null and low sec, even if it's just "the rats will wait X amount of time before beginning to think about switching targets"

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#843 - 2012-10-04 12:56:20 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Adigard wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
darkness 4 wrote:
Running anoms and lvl 5 missions should also be checked using subcaps with fighters assigned from a carrier that's sitting at a safe.



This


Sadly we'll probably have to wait until the server's come back up (someday we hope?) else the answer may be something akin to:

"We ran the first room of the Score, L4, in a Tengu with fighter assistance. It was fairly easy, but we lost two fighters to rat aggro. We're okay with this."


Wait, so fighters are required in a L4 mission now? No, I am not testing that. Please stop. If you honestly have a mission or anomaly or something like that you want me to test please let me know and I will.


Blood Raider Naval Shipyard and Angel Cartel Naval Ship Yard.
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#844 - 2012-10-04 12:57:45 UTC
Regarding the PvE in Hisec ... beginners may (will) have to start with lower level of missions (eg L2, L3 ...) with smaller opponents, hence NPC likely more distributing DPS (friends and drones included). In the case of L3, drones loss may cause the reward to be not the worth doing the mission. If I compare with WH (with the very little experience I have in this area, TBH), that means that people might stop using T2 drones and use garbage-T1 drones, assuming that they will eventually lose them as baits.

Also in the case of L4, Buzz Kill is a typical example where player drones with this new AI will be simply wiped out, because unless you fly T3 / CS, you'll have a BS which is far bigger than all the rats.

Doing L3 or inferior in fleet with modules not used before like RR is very different and likely inconvenient as the small ships used are already though to setup in a fittable AND usable manner with low SP. Moreover, EWAR modules are mid-slot, which makes shield tanking a no-way (I know, some already use painting, but I'm not convinced it will suffice as a threat to switch aggro). OK, you can counter this with a big fleet, but come on, what the point of having a scout / vanguard sized fleet where people won't even get reimbursed from they ammo / drone loss ?
Sam Neill
Dead Poet Society
#845 - 2012-10-04 13:21:39 UTC
So, when is Duality up again for testing?
Or Buckingham with the changes?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#846 - 2012-10-04 13:34:48 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Adigard wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
darkness 4 wrote:
Running anoms and lvl 5 missions should also be checked using subcaps with fighters assigned from a carrier that's sitting at a safe.



This


Sadly we'll probably have to wait until the server's come back up (someday we hope?) else the answer may be something akin to:

"We ran the first room of the Score, L4, in a Tengu with fighter assistance. It was fairly easy, but we lost two fighters to rat aggro. We're okay with this."


Wait, so fighters are required in a L4 mission now? No, I am not testing that. Please stop. If you honestly have a mission or anomaly or something like that you want me to test please let me know and I will.


The ISDs are telling people the changes are on Buckingham, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Can you let us know one way or another?


Buckingham has a custom DUST build right now, it does not have the Winter release. I would love to give a timeline for when Duality will be up, but the best I can do is before the end of the month.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#847 - 2012-10-04 14:31:07 UTC
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#848 - 2012-10-04 14:48:59 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


While you are at it can someone make towers not have completely useless drops? 100 T1 ammo is not worth shooting it in the first place.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#849 - 2012-10-04 14:50:28 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


While you are at it can someone make towers not have completely useless drops? 100 T1 ammo is not worth shooting it in the first place.


Sorry, that will be a bit beyond the scope of this project.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#850 - 2012-10-04 15:04:50 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Thank you for looking into our concerns. This highlights our concern that

While this is to me (as an explorer) a bit of welcome news, there is still the issue of the REST of the NPCs in the final rooms of High End Plexes (erm, by the way, plexes, not "missions", missions are soooo Empire).

For instance, Blood Raidern Naval Shipyard. 20 neutiing battleships plus the torp chucking structure. It takes almost a dedicated logi to rep even a loki enough to keep it alive in full aggro. The 20 BS switching target off the "tank" is not as bad as the torp switching off, but, since a logi is also cruiser sized, it would be a toss up as to who the neuting BSs aggro right?

Not an insurmountable problem, if the "tank" can hold torp/overseer aggro, the players could just use spider tanking BS feeding each other cap as well as reps. But even then it could be way more iffy, and if top end plexes become too "ship-killerish", peolle will simply not do the plexes until you go back and fix them. This just recently happened with Forsaken and forlorn hubs after the recent buff, you guys had to turn around and change spawns on them yet again because (in the words of the developer, whover it was) they had become "to killy" lol.

Still, glad you are listening to our concerns. I'm sure many of us still feel that given how complex, widespread and interconnected this portion of PVE is, it would be better to do a few things ,like redesigning a fair bit of the sites and missions, like Blood Raider naval ship yard, the mission "buzz kill" that is frig heavy and many others. Also like doing something about that god-awful drone control interface.

But at this point I'll take whatever consideration we can get lol
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#851 - 2012-10-04 15:05:58 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Oh....so null sec plexes are too hard with the new AI, but it is perfectly OK to destroy drone boats in high sec.
It is pretty clear that the null sec zealots are in total control when you feel comfortable posting statements as above.

Why don't you just have the guts to post the truth and say "yeah, we are dropping all pretenses about this being anything but an attack on high sec."
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#852 - 2012-10-04 15:16:39 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Oh....so null sec plexes are too hard with the new AI, but it is perfectly OK to destroy drone boats in high sec.
It is pretty clear that the null sec zealots are in total control when you feel comfortable posting statements as above.

Why don't you just have the guts to post the truth and say "yeah, we are dropping all pretenses about this being anything but an attack on high sec."


Please go away (or take whatever medication you take to control unjustified paranoia).
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#853 - 2012-10-04 15:31:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Thank you for looking into our concerns. This highlights our concern that

While this is to me (as an explorer) a bit of welcome news, there is still the issue of the REST of the NPCs in the final rooms of High End Plexes (erm, by the way, plexes, not "missions", missions are soooo Empire).

For instance, Blood Raidern Naval Shipyard. 20 neutiing battleships plus the torp chucking structure. It takes almost a dedicated logi to rep even a loki enough to keep it alive in full aggro. The 20 BS switching target off the "tank" is not as bad as the torp switching off, but, since a logi is also cruiser sized, it would be a toss up as to who the neuting BSs aggro right?

Not an insurmountable problem, if the "tank" can hold torp/overseer aggro, the players could just use spider tanking BS feeding each other cap as well as reps. But even then it could be way more iffy, and if top end plexes become too "ship-killerish", peolle will simply not do the plexes until you go back and fix them. This just recently happened with Forsaken and forlorn hubs after the recent buff, you guys had to turn around and change spawns on them yet again because (in the words of the developer, whover it was) they had become "to killy" lol.

Still, glad you are listening to our concerns. I'm sure many of us still feel that given how complex, widespread and interconnected this portion of PVE is, it would be better to do a few things ,like redesigning a fair bit of the sites and missions, like Blood Raider naval ship yard, the mission "buzz kill" that is frig heavy and many others. Also like doing something about that god-awful drone control interface.

But at this point I'll take whatever consideration we can get lol


That's right, make sure that null sec income is not hit, but screw high sec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#854 - 2012-10-04 16:10:57 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
That's right, make sure that null sec income is not hit, but screw high sec.


Gee, it's almost as if this whole change is meant to reduce the use of certain ships that depend solely on drones for DPS in nullsec anomalies.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#855 - 2012-10-04 16:18:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Thank you for looking into our concerns. This highlights our concern that

While this is to me (as an explorer) a bit of welcome news, there is still the issue of the REST of the NPCs in the final rooms of High End Plexes (erm, by the way, plexes, not "missions", missions are soooo Empire).

For instance, Blood Raidern Naval Shipyard. 20 neutiing battleships plus the torp chucking structure. It takes almost a dedicated logi to rep even a loki enough to keep it alive in full aggro. The 20 BS switching target off the "tank" is not as bad as the torp switching off, but, since a logi is also cruiser sized, it would be a toss up as to who the neuting BSs aggro right?

Not an insurmountable problem, if the "tank" can hold torp/overseer aggro, the players could just use spider tanking BS feeding each other cap as well as reps. But even then it could be way more iffy, and if top end plexes become too "ship-killerish", peolle will simply not do the plexes until you go back and fix them. This just recently happened with Forsaken and forlorn hubs after the recent buff, you guys had to turn around and change spawns on them yet again because (in the words of the developer, whover it was) they had become "to killy" lol.

Still, glad you are listening to our concerns. I'm sure many of us still feel that given how complex, widespread and interconnected this portion of PVE is, it would be better to do a few things ,like redesigning a fair bit of the sites and missions, like Blood Raider naval ship yard, the mission "buzz kill" that is frig heavy and many others. Also like doing something about that god-awful drone control interface.

But at this point I'll take whatever consideration we can get lol


That's right, make sure that null sec income is not hit, but screw high sec.



Please stop with the rumour posting, it is not productive and adds nothing to the conversation. If you wish to discuss these changes, please do so in a sensible fashion, thank you - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
#856 - 2012-10-04 16:19:07 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Thank you for looking into our concerns. This highlights our concern that

While this is to me (as an explorer) a bit of welcome news, there is still the issue of the REST of the NPCs in the final rooms of High End Plexes (erm, by the way, plexes, not "missions", missions are soooo Empire).

For instance, Blood Raidern Naval Shipyard. 20 neutiing battleships plus the torp chucking structure. It takes almost a dedicated logi to rep even a loki enough to keep it alive in full aggro. The 20 BS switching target off the "tank" is not as bad as the torp switching off, but, since a logi is also cruiser sized, it would be a toss up as to who the neuting BSs aggro right?

Not an insurmountable problem, if the "tank" can hold torp/overseer aggro, the players could just use spider tanking BS feeding each other cap as well as reps. But even then it could be way more iffy, and if top end plexes become too "ship-killerish", peolle will simply not do the plexes until you go back and fix them. This just recently happened with Forsaken and forlorn hubs after the recent buff, you guys had to turn around and change spawns on them yet again because (in the words of the developer, whover it was) they had become "to killy" lol.

Still, glad you are listening to our concerns. I'm sure many of us still feel that given how complex, widespread and interconnected this portion of PVE is, it would be better to do a few things ,like redesigning a fair bit of the sites and missions, like Blood Raider naval ship yard, the mission "buzz kill" that is frig heavy and many others. Also like doing something about that god-awful drone control interface.

But at this point I'll take whatever consideration we can get lol


That's right, make sure that null sec income is not hit, but screw high sec.


IMHO earning MORE in high sec than nullsec IS wrong.

Live on Eve Radio Sundays 15:00 GMT with me & friends talking about Eve and stuff. Twitter, Facebook TotalEve

Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#857 - 2012-10-04 16:22:38 UTC
Quote from an update in the Missions and Complex thread:

CCP FoxFour wrote:
Also, a smart bomb is nice for dealing with large numbers of frigates in close.


Everyone should do this [in high sec]. My cloaky ships will be waiting for your aggression.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#858 - 2012-10-04 16:35:50 UTC
DJWiggles wrote:

IMHO earning MORE in high sec than nullsec IS wrong.


I have played this game for over 4 years. I have lived in wh's for over a year, lived in null sec for 8 months, run low sec plexes for years.

The char's on this account combined have a NAV of about 50 billion.
The VAST, VAST majority of that was made in the 8 months of null sec plexing.

High sec NEVER has made as much as nulls sec, not even Incursions before they were destroyed.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#859 - 2012-10-04 16:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Null sec ganks of people running PvE content. This does have an effect on that no doubt. To be honest yes this means you will no longer be able to do this solo in a stealth bomber. I however just tested it and was able to tank six frigate NPC in my nemesis long enough for another character to jump into the system and warp 73au. I might be wrong but with the amount of EWAR that comes from frigates, and their hatred of drones, most people usually shoot them first when running these. The cruisers and BS never even looked at my Nemesis while I ganked the Raven. I also made sure the Raven was only running local tank so as not to generate any extra threat. If you want to be able to gank these guys solo, then yes it is going to mean you will need to bring something bigger. If there are a lot of frigate NPC on the field, well that will be difficult. We have accepted that as OK.

you suck!
Your new AI wont make PvE more engaging, but it will make it more annoying. In the same time you reduce PvP chances and give bears more safety in 0.0, as if it wasnt safe enough already.
Congratulations, you just removed an entire pvp branch and made one of the few ships being able of harassing bears in deep 0.0 useless.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#860 - 2012-10-04 16:48:28 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I promised to keep you updated and so I am.

I have been running some more missions and we have found a problem. The missile batteries and other turrets (such as the one at the end of the maze, stasis towers, cruise missile towers, etc.) are under certain circumstances having problems with the new AI. We are currently evaluating our options but we may end up reverting the AI from those turrets and leaving them how they were for a few reasons. One of them being that we believe missions involving the station gun from the end of the maze are not as balanced as we would like.

I will be spending this afternoon testing it some more as well as testing it with the towers using the old dumb AI.


Have you run L4 Buzzkill in a drone boat?
Or Moudus Headhunters?
Or Sansha Recon 1st room and actually hanging around to kill the rats?

Or any number of other missions I can state?
And how about if you have, you could post your fits and post up a You Tube of how easy it is with the new AI.

Given how you are the ONLY one who can test, given how difficult it is for CCP to get Duality up and running.