Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Long ranged weapons in general are not used outside of 0.0 because you cant mass tackle people with a bubble

you may not see many HMLs in low sec, but i guarantee you see more of them than medium beam lasers or railguns, and probably more than arty, though those do have the niche of alpha strike which still makes them viable in low sec.

How many HMLs do you see in low sec?
How many Medium Beam Lasers?
How many Railguns?

this is not evidence of the HML being balanced but evidence of the long range weapons not being the meta outside of 0.0


So your suggestion is to leave the HML OP, and buff something else to counter it? ever hear of power creep? well im coining a new term; what you want is power leap!


Yes, HAMs work just fine right now, theyre just currently being overshadowed by HMLs which are better in every way.

nobody flies HAMs now because HMLs are totally overpowered and better than they are in every way, but if you take HMLs out of the equation and look at the weapon system objectively, HAMs are actually quite well balanced.

After the buff, HAMs will be quite a bit better.

Clearly you just like hearing yourself talk and no amount of evidence is going to convince what youve already determined to yourself in your own mind, this post is purely for the other people who may read it, so they may not be sucked into your zealotry.

No, its proof for my point: outside nullsec blobs Drakes are a non-issue in terms of being OP. They are balanced, outside nullsec blobs. So if you tone them down, they will be not balanced anymore outside nullsec blobs, they will be broken. Apart from that, I see Artillery being used in low sec, and also Beams and Rails, but mostly large. Then again - how many Cruise Missiles and Torps do you see *anywhere* in Eve?

About the nullsec blobs: The Drake in nullsec will also not exist anymore. You simply kill the ship with those changes, at least for those who want to do efficient PvP. Simple as that.



No. Power creep is something completely different :) If I would boost all med size long range weapons to be on par with the Drake where it is good NOW (medium-long engagement ranges) and not also give the others the weaknesses the Drake has, then this would be power creep. If I boost a currently completely broken system of *another size* like Raven/CM (which are a complete NO GO for PvP atm! Because they suck so hard) so it will be actually work AND have a role, then this is not power creep but balance. PvP Ravens should be the natural counter for PvP Drakes on long ranges (and on short too, Torp Ravens should be able to own HAM Drakes, while having issues with smaller signature BCs ofc) because the Drake has a huge sig and should be countered easily by its big brother. You will see when you finally do it (and no one here except you seems to object) how CM would crush those Drake blobs into non-existence, while still the Drake would keep its balance in every other game.

CM/Raven/Phoon blobs would kill Drakes, but still could be countered with other tech 1 hull BS.



You are wrong here, and your lack of knowledge may be there because you actually never used HAMs. In fact I dont see you used any Caldari ships recently, is that possible?




If or if not HAMs will be better after the patch in a way they are giving the Drake a chance to be on par with the rest (which they dont do now!) we will see. What I see is this: atm the Drake is worst in HAM/close range of all tier 2 BC. 4th of 4. With HML it can compete with the best (tied 1st with the Cane) in all but nullsec. If you break HML and fail to fix HAM with the patch Caldari will not have a single viable and working missile pvp hull left above frig. This is what drives me, and if you call that zealotry, go on. I call it call for justice and balance.

As long as others have their OP systems and ships still going around I dont see a reason to nerf the only working caldari tech 1 hull/weapon system combination, especially when getting rid of the MAIN ISSUE (Nullsec blobs) is so ridiculously easy (buff CM/Raven, which should be done anyway!). And I dont see the reason esp. because the DRAKE IS NOT OP anywhere else but in nullsec blobs. You just stated that yourself, how meta game which favours the Drake is just not an issue in any other space than nullsec.

Which is why the first ship I take out of my hangar for PVP is the Drake....lol, I think the drake is around 4th on my list.
Again all these argument show and have shown is that the problem is with the ships not the missles.

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I have only played EVE for a little over 2 months, so i might not have much to say about this. I only know what others have told me, what i´ve read and what i have experienced myself.

The 2.0 changes to this proposal looks alot better than the previous ones. A big discussion here is the range of the HML:s, and i agree they need some nerfing. although, i want to make sure you take into account that if i fly a hml drake, and my range is 80km. the ACTUAL range is alot less than that. these numbers arent well calculated, but all the enemy has to do is move away from me, and the range will be DRASTICLY reduced. all from 4km to 20km or more, depending on how fast the enemy moves. (and me moving towards him will not mean anything, as the missiles have nothing to do with my ship after they are launched).

with this said, when saying hml:s range is 80km for example, this is far from true, so make sure you take what i´ve said into account before nerfing the range too much.

again, i agree with the nerf. although make sure it is not too much. i am pretty sure you have already taken this into account but considering the very long travel time, the fact that my damage will come much later than the enemys, and the fact that the enemy may have already been destroyed after i´ve shot a volley, the hml deserve to be a little better/reliable than the rest. (i still agree with a nerf, i just want to make sure you dont nerf too much) i dont really know much about the other weapon systems downsides. i know turrets for example have falloff, but i´m am not very familiar with exactly how it works except beyond a certain range you start to miss.

hml:s should be very long range with mediocre damage, but reliable. (remember all the downsides i mentioned, travel time for one) while turrets have high damage, but with more risk. (missing at longer distances and such) meaning hml:s will be much better at long ranges (1v1 for example) but turrets will shred the missileboat at closer ranges.

again, i am just a newb, so dont rage at me too much if i´m wrong :D

While you may be a new player, you still seem to understand those issues with balancing a lot better than many so called vets ... exactly thats what has to be considered, not only one number which looks high but the whole ship and environment where its working. And mitigation of missile damage is not a non-issue, its happening a lot. Esp. outside web/scram range, where one cant control the speed of the enemy like in closer ranged battles.

So a thumbs up to you and thanks for your posting.

Actually I'd be inclined to suggest that (today) it is more to do with the really, really harsh fitting requirements for HAMS compared to HML. You need stupidlyreally high skills to realistically fit HAMS (assuming no stupid money poured into meta items)

I don't see how you can say that HML's are the problem with HAMs. DPS wise a HAM drake does less dps then any shorter range then other short range variants, absent the Ferox with neutron blasters. And I'm not pulling out strictly Eve hq numbers, I'm refering to my own skills. I'm basing off a NORMAL ship, not some bogus thing you cooked up with Eve HQ or EFT using T2 rigs (Most ships simply aren't t2 rigged) or expensive implants.

Every post defending the viability of HAMS has had Jav loaded with t2 rigs. How is that a defense? "You need t2 rigs to make HAMs viable." Not exactly the best defense for a weapons system. HAMS dps and range even with Jav loaded, which Jav also takes 10 seconds to load, is poor at best. Simply put. Stick it on a ship and try it out.

You guys can post all these numbers about how they are fine, but find me one ship that can get the DPS of a Harby or Brutix, or even a cane, using HML's and good luck.

Oh yeah for how far?

At the edge or web range you have caught medium blasterss, and at long point ranges it out DPS's everything short of a tier 3....Harby is likely close, drake has more tank then everything but a Cyclone or Myrm with sheilds....buy a significant margin.

....inb4 HG SLAVES

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I wasn't complaining, I'm simply saying that fitting requirements today are much more likely to be a contributing factor to relative HAM boat rareness as opposed to current HML/HAM differences. The original post I quoted suggested it was the weapon power differences when in reality it's probably a lot more to do with fitting for most.