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Anthropomorphism: Amarr Empires Man god presides over Church

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Braitai
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-10-04 07:39:48 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
All of that should, at least, win an acceptance of the possibility that He exists, no?


No, only a fool would would accept that as evidence.

Ottom Ephesianos, your faith, whatever it may be, is your own business and I wish no conflict with any person that believes in the supernatural. If you fight with us for the freedom to believe, or not to believe, to live free and to allow people influence over the decisions that affect them, then I welcome you as a brother. Just as I accept that many of my fellow Minmatar have spiritual beliefs, I will accept that you have yours as well.

For me there is wisdom to be found among such traditions, just not an accurate representation of objective reality.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-10-04 09:09:32 UTC
Did I say it was evidence?

Are we still at the stage of asking for empirical proofs of supernatural entities?
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#23 - 2012-10-04 09:38:41 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Did I say it was evidence?

Are we still at the stage of asking for empirical proofs of supernatural entities?


I think we will always be at that stage, you are a rational human being (for the most part). As fellow humans, some of us base our lives on the physical, sure you can rebuke me for being small minded and all that rhetoric, but the fact is, if we have it within us to question if something exists or not then we have to assume that you can do the same and then ask for proof.

I can hear you saying "well prove to me that supernatural entities DON'T exist", I can't, its a circular argument and you know it.


Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-10-04 12:00:23 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Snip.


Cartoth wrote:
You get snipped, too.


Of course you are both welcome; please do mail me when you collect your thoughts and decide whether and where you would like to proceed and I will strive to find a time when I am available.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Braitai
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-10-05 00:53:10 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Did I say it was evidence?

Are we still at the stage of asking for empirical proofs of supernatural entities?


It was evidence that you offered whether you realise it or not. An argument from authority, or tradition is still evidence. One must ask whether such evidence is appropriate for the situation. Evidence should match the magnitude and nature of the claim that is being made.

If you claim that you favourite colour is blue, I'd probably believe you. I don't need a lengthy investigation to accept it. If you are lying to me it is of little consequence. The claims your religion make are not in any way, shape, or form, met by the evidence presented. Not even the possibility of god existing is met by the arguments you've offered.

The most compelling arguments for faith that I've heard don't attempt to present evidence. They accept that it is irrational. They accept that goes against reason. They accept that they are compelled to believe because of an emotional requirement. Just as I am compelled not to believe because of a lack of evidence.

Instincts and emotions form the basis for all action. If people are compelled by these to abandon reason when it comes to believing in the supernatural then there is very little that reasoned argument will achieve, and indeed I believe it is in my own best interest to focus more on people's actions rather than their beliefs at any rate.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-10-05 07:52:47 UTC
I agree with most of what you said in your post, above. I don't agree that the magnitude of the claim must be matched by the evidence for it, because I believe that the established position has a certain momentum of inertia, a 'right of way' if you like, that an effort to dispute it must first overcome.

Now, that has nothing to do with the non-sensical claims made by the original poster, who has been claiming very definite things with absolutely no merit. If you ask me which religious belief system has more proof, Matari Shamanism or the Amarrian Faith, I'm forced to shrug. If you ask me which I believe, I'm on stronger ground.

The above notwithstanding, if I say I don't personally share the beliefs of the Matari Shaman then there's not much that can be said. If I claim that Matari Shamanism is a fake religion that was invented by me, fifteen hours ago in Foodcourt XII of Jita 4, 4 then you can disprove that claim absolutely by finding a Matari Shaman that was practising sixteen hours ago and proving that I wasn't in Foodcourt XII fifteen hours ago but, instead, docked up in Khanid Prime's Khanid Works shipyard.

That's the point I was making.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-10-05 12:16:14 UTC
Ottom Ephesianos wrote:
There is a universal set of moral standards.


Starting off with such a silly premise makes reading the rest of your argument a waste of time.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Braitai
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-10-07 01:02:55 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
If I claim that Matari Shamanism is a fake religion that was invented by me, fifteen hours ago in Foodcourt XII of Jita 4, 4 then you can disprove that claim absolutely by finding a Matari Shaman that was practising sixteen hours ago and proving that I wasn't in Foodcourt XII fifteen hours ago but, instead, docked up in Khanid Prime's Khanid Works shipyard.

That's the point I was making.


If that were an accurate analogy of the position he was offering your point would be valid, but it isn't, so it's not.
Rorin Cutter
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#29 - 2012-10-07 12:41:55 UTC
Since when is a member of Ushra'Khan an Amarrian freedom fighter? Explain this please.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-10-07 13:25:01 UTC
Seems like they inherited gallentean methods of accepting all wastes and dumps (like 'freedom fighters') from all over the world.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-10-07 18:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaki Mai
Braitai wrote:
If that were an accurate analogy of the position he was offering your point would be valid, but it isn't, so it's not.


If your arguments were actually advancing our discussion I would be pre-disposed to continue it, but they aren't, so I'm not.

Heck, Silas Vitaria just rendered this entire thread of posts utterly obsolete with her observation that the Idiot who wrote the original post is proceeding from an entirely false assumption. That is actually what I was dancing around with my metaphors, only I lacked her clarity of expression.
Braitai
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-10-08 02:19:27 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Heck, Silas Vitaria just rendered this entire thread of posts utterly obsolete with her observation that the Idiot who wrote the original post is proceeding from an entirely false assumption.


Actually I agree, it is a false assumption. A universal set of 'rules' perhaps, but morals? I'm surprised that YOU don't believe in a universal set of morals however, aren't the morals your 'god' represent universal?
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-10-08 05:40:53 UTC
If the morals of God were universal then there would be no need for the Reclaiming or, I think, many of the nastier things in the Cluster. Sadly, they are not and recognising that different societies have different ethical packages doesn't mean I accept all of them as equal.
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