Player Features and Ideas Discussion

During a recent fleet fight we again saw the use of what has been termed the multi convo exploit among members and it gave rise to the thought to enquire as to whether this was an actual exploit or just clever use of game mechanics to gain an advantage.

After a number of text's were passed back and forth regarding the matter it would appear that CCP are aware of this matter....are not prepared to discuss it in detail with anyone.....pointing at the EULA's contents,.....are not prepared to allow those directly involved in the discussion to mention who it is they are in discussion with what this discussion contained or what the final decision handed down from the petition was.

Instead I was directed to post here so here I am and here is my take on the situation as it now stands.

An Exploit in EVE terms IMO, has always come down to a few simple facts, that a player or players can by misuse of game mechanics gain an unfair advantage over other players in game, be that in combat or market, lets stick to the terms PvP or PvE.

Historically CCP has always acted quickly to resolve these issues and close any loop-hole of this nature firmly, those involved have at times been severely dealt with while at others they have not.

In this particular instance one fleets members targeted another fleets members by sending multiple convo requests, in my own case over 100 were received, so disturbing my clients operation that it became unresponsive leading to the loss of the ship and pod, something I had no knowledge of until my clients operation returned to normal.

This tactic was not confined to one member of the fleet as in turn 18 carriers were first crashed out then destroyed resulting in the loss of the CSAA being defended.

Prior to this unexpected tactic being employed the carriers involved were not only holding there own but were indeed managing to rep the CSAA, the convo thing turned the tables quickly and within a few minutes almost all the fleet had been destroyed.

My question is and remains unanswered to my own satisfaction, is this tactic of using an unrelated section of EVE in such a manner as to render a players client unresponsive or to crash it out and Exploit under the terms of the EULA.

CCP say no, use of the convo mechanics is a normal operation of EVE so not an exploit, however I point you all to the following web page. http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp

And in particular to the following clause included in that web page

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

I would say that dumping multiple convo requests on a player could be construed to be covered under these terms of service.

Solution: to included in the convo mechanics timer/counters that auto reject at sever level more than 5 per minute, doing this at client level will still leave that IP address being placed under sever loading even though the reject option has been invoked on that client.

cap convo requests to a character, and from a character to one a minute. problem solved.

This is blatantly an exploit......

Note: it is easily preventable... just turn on auto-reject convo's.

IMO, if CCP's logs back up your claim, all players that convo'd you should receive a 5-day ban, and CCP should should publicly declare this an Exploit. To all the players involved, the "I didn't know it was an exploit" card is NOT an excuse! You have to be a complete imbecile to not realize that abusing convo mechanics to disrupt another player's ability to control their ship is just wrong!!! You deserve the ban!

Cap pilots in question had auto-reject on, as well as no-convo's from unknown players.

System still got bogged down, players still lagged out.

Easy to fix, change the limit on CSPA charges. Then you can set it to 10bil or something and see how many times you get convo-ed. Not sure if this changes lag, but it will soon stop the requests.

I can turn my phone off. Also being called repeatedly does not bog down my computer's processor.

And if the part about several of the victims having autoreject off and it having no/minimal effect, then something needs to be done quickly.

Meanwhile I'm going to see what I can do to get a group together to test this on sisi.

Dear fellow Razor pilot,

When our FC's and other pilots get the same treatment from your own coalition, does that not make this a hypocritical post?

Please reply.

Cordially,

Quesa

Razor is ****.

Fascinating. Just so happens the other day I was out roaming with my Sabre. I jump in system and warp to a gate which has a sling bubble on it and Hawk on scan. No problem, I was looking for a little action. As I exit warp and land in the bubble, guess what happens.

I get mass convo spammed to hell and back, even though the Hawk and me were the only one in system. My client didn't lag out, but it was non-stop convo spam that kept me from actually fighting the Hawk. All the convo requests were from Goonswarm Federation pilots. Turns out they have a channel with a lot of guys in it. So when they want to convo bomb you, they drag and drop your name in it and then when the timing is right, call for the convo bomb. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14732377

Now granted I was a bit upset by this tactic, but now I simply check the box in the ESC menu that blocks invites for when I PvP. No more problems. So if you want to pursue this path of claiming exploit and things of such nature, be sure to mention how you and your buddies have been doing it the whole time.

I will admit these never ending tears are delicious. Bottom line; don't throw rocks from a glass house.

The tactic is in extremely poor taste, is blatantly an exploit, and even if you can prevent it by turn on auto-reject, people that even attempt to do it should be straight up banned for several days when reported, and longer if they keep the reprehensible behavior!!

It's not a legitimate use of the chat feature, and its not a grey area... this is very black and white, and the only question is can CCP verify these events, and where is the line in the sand to distinguish legit chat attempts from convo bombs....