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On Dust514 and why it will save Eve (and therefore CCP)

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2011-10-17 06:10:33 UTC
Akelorian wrote:
Hi there, this is Akelorian

CryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCryCry

Best regards,

Akelorian

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Officer Spawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-10-17 06:20:50 UTC
The main thing that will decide the success of DUST is the shinyness of the graphics. The little demos we've seen are pretty gorgeous but they immediately bring to mind the beautiful Incarna demos seen in the past years and the terrible end product that followed.

With the PS3 slowly getting to the end of its product lifecycle the deadlines on DUST are pretty final, they release a fully working game in 2012 or switch to a PS4 launch title. Based on previous experiences with overpromising and underdelivering my money is on the second option.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2011-10-17 08:19:03 UTC
Whenever the launch of the PS4 is scheduled it won't be by the end of this year, or even 2012 from what I see. In any case there are still millions of PS3 outthere and the PS4 will have to support PS3 games.

Since DUST514 will be a downloaded game it doesn't really matter if it will be on the 4 or 3. The only thing that changes is that CCP has more headroom in terms of expansions, computerpower, etc to work with in the future. We have seen CCP update their engine and graphics in EVE, why wouldn't it do so with its shooter?

I personally would love to hear more about dust 514 but since they have no real forums and their website ony launched chronicles in story forms we don't have any real "meat" to chew on. What we do now is mostly titbits and suppositions. It would be great to have a real rundown of Dust514, with implemented, possible and future features explained and exposed.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#64 - 2011-10-17 11:41:15 UTC
Mal Mandrake wrote:


1.) If by free to play you mean it costs 60 dollars to buy... then yes. (Console game revenue is derived from sales and map packs alone)

2.)True, but that is the way of exclusives.

3.)Umm... You think console owners don't own a PC as well? Are you serious? All those xbox and ps3 forums must be fictitious.

4.)There will be balance and control to this. Ever used a nuke in SC? or an orbital strike in Command and Conquer? or a killstreak in CoD? Also I imagine you won't be able to orbital bombard in highsec. (Which raises an interesting point on Dust in highsec in general.)

5.)Eve trailers are amongst the highest quality out there.

6.)I don't have access to any budgeting documents sent by CCP, if you have access please share.


1) I mean free download and no sub - that is what was said at a recent interview and it will not have a retail sell through - which misses out on impulse buys.

2) Yes, which means they miss out on 40 MILLION potential xbox360 players - grats. Not to mention the PC & Mac userbase...

3) I do, but I know that these people are the minority.

4) You & I do not know this: but it will happen. Reason? CCP have not given us enough new things to do, and blowing up PS3 players for the lols and pure spite of it is more likely with the EVE playerbase than probably any other game on the market.

5) I do not disagree, when you are talking about the production quality, but nothing more. Let me ask you a question; do you think CCP's video production is correctly targetting gamers?

6) Sarcasm will not win the arguement; so maybe I'll expand. CCP has a lack of marketing funds to compete - and BF3 is a prime example of how marketing funds for games are allocated and spent. EA have put $100 million of marketing into BF3.

CCP have how much for Dust?
And how is this money going to be recouped?
What percentage of EVE development cost for EVE should be apportioned to Dust?
How much of that is subscription money from EVE?
Should they reduce marketing money expenditure from EVE and assign that to Dust also?
What and where is the ROI?
Is Dust supposed to lose money for the first year and slowly grow its revenue over a period of time?
If so, what is that period of time?
What happens if Dust fails to hit this projection?
What is the impact to EVE?
What is the financial impact to CCP?
Would this failure affect EVE?
Is the invest of time and money into EVE that capsuleers have put into EVE going to be protected if Dust fails?

All of these questions are valid for everyone who plays EVE.

Dust is a very nice idea - but will have a very tough time and I am the type of person who does not ostracise and wax lyrical.

AK

This space for rent.
Prince Kobol
#65 - 2011-10-17 11:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
I hope Dust is a success, I really do, but considering that its success is going to be heavily reliant on CCP being able to push high quality, relatively bug free updates on a regular basis then history tells us it will fail.
Htrag
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
#66 - 2011-10-17 12:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Htrag
CCP Shadow wrote:
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
DUST 514 is going to sink CCP, it will not compete in the world of console shooters. It will have a population of a couple thousand players who happen to be EVE players who own a PS3.

What happens to DUST 514 and EVE a year after its launch, when BF5 and CoD13 launch?


Hey Nostradamus! As long as you're predicting the future, do you also have any winning lottery numbers for next summer? Blink I'm kidding, but you do raise a point that I see quite a bit. One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that the DUST 514 player base isn't going to be entirely comprised of people who are playing EVE already. There is a great deal of interest in DUST 514 among PlayStation gamers and the future is not as gloomy as how you're picturing it.


It doesn't take a fortune teller to recognize that CCP is trending the path of Epic Fail.

It's only logical that Dust will be the victim of a self inflicted gunshot wound as well, if it even passes the stage of perpetual vaporware.

Be honest, is Dust even in a playable state, or is it just one room that looks slightly similar to the Minmatar captain's closet.

Whatever "dev" it was that removed the pod squish sound probably never even logged into the game.
BLACK-STAR
#67 - 2011-10-17 12:15:40 UTC
CCP said there was going to be an additional fee, some sort of fee to get you ''credits'' (perhaps?: for ISK/AUR?) to start out MP and build or lose on, buying things in order to play DUST.

so you buy the game, plus pay some sort of member fee to get credits in your wallet. I'm openly asking, Is this fanbase for DUST eager to pay extra fees right when they start the game when they play PSN MP for free.? hmmm most likely not going to maintain a easy optin playerbase.




CCP also said the fee is still remaining, but they also said if it doesn't go well they might remove this fee. (This statement goes way all before the Jita protests and ccp's internal priority change). Someone, if feeling optimistic, can go source the video/devblog and post it (cause I'm too lazy, and tired), However I hope you all remember this was firmly stated by CCP.



Hi CCP Shadow, can you confirm what I all said above please? if people think I'm a lier, or I'm really just out of my mind.


CCP Shadow wrote:
One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that the DUST 514 player base isn't going to be entirely comprised of people who are playing EVE already. There is a great deal of interest in DUST 514 among PlayStation gamers and the future is not as gloomy as how you're picturing it.

CCP Shadow, or any dev I welcome:


? who are these guys, I haven't personally noticed a mass of DUST communities anywhere and there isn't an official community site -- could you guys put up a board soon?
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2011-10-17 12:17:12 UTC

Comparing 514 to other FPS makes no sense,
because it's - altough First Person - pretty much something completely different.

People will play those other shooters people keep mentioning AND 514,
because 514 goes on and on and on and on and on and on ... and all the others simply don't.
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-10-17 12:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
BLACK-STAR wrote:
CCP said there was going to be an additional fee, some sort of fee to get you ''credits'' (perhaps?: for ISK/AUR?) to start out MP and build or lose on, buying things in order to play DUST.

so you buy the game, plus pay some sort of member fee to get credits in your wallet. I'm openly asking, Is this fanbase for DUST eager to pay extra fees right when they start the game when they play PSN MP for free.? hmmm most likely not going to maintain a easy optin playerbase.




CCP also said the fee is still remaining, but they also said if it doesn't go well they might remove this fee. (This statement goes way all before the Jita protests and ccp's internal priority change). Someone, if feeling optimistic, can go source the video/devblog and post it (cause I'm too lazy, and tired), However I hope you all remember this was firmly stated by CCP.



Hi CCP Shadow, can you confirm what I all said above please? if people think I'm a lier, or I'm really just out of my mind.


CCP Shadow wrote:
One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that the DUST 514 player base isn't going to be entirely comprised of people who are playing EVE already. There is a great deal of interest in DUST 514 among PlayStation gamers and the future is not as gloomy as how you're picturing it.

CCP Shadow, or any dev I welcome:


? who are these guys, I haven't personally noticed a mass of DUST communities anywhere and there isn't an official community site -- could you guys put up a board soon?



http://www.dust514.com/ - Official site. No forums (yet).
http://www.dust514.org/ - Biggest fansite, been around since the press announcement in August 2009.

Enjoy.

Also, if any of you have heard of MAG for PS3, there are a lot of players from there thinking of coming over to DUST 514 when it's released. Just FYI.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
BLACK-STAR
#70 - 2011-10-17 12:22:38 UTC
Grideris wrote:
http://www.dust514.org/

Enjoy.

Also, if any of you have heard of MAG for PS3, there are a lot of players from there thinking of coming over to DUST 514 when it's released. Just FYI.

ahh nice thanks for this link. :) cheers
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2011-10-17 12:52:38 UTC
Mal Mandrake wrote:
I believe CCP has an excellent plan for the future of Eve in conjunction with Dust 514.

Dust 514 will be a first-person shooter for the PS3. It is essentially a game about mercenaries. We as Eve players will be able to create contracts with Dust players to either a.) attack planet installations, or b.) defend planet installation (There may be other uses, but this is as far as I have gone so far.)

What installations are we talking about? Well PI of course.

That is right, in the near future you will have to pay to keep your cozy planets secure.

Now here is an interesting point, sort of a big picture look at how this works.

A lot of people have asked why PI is so easy, safe, overpowered. CCP has made it this way to encourage a rapid growth of PI installation across the galaxy. Whenever we set up a new planet with PI we are essentially creating another "level" for Dust players to play on.

Think about how many planets with PI are spread throughout the galaxy right now? Through our efforts we will have created an endless amount of levels for Dust players to fight on.

Now for how this saves Eve.

Each and every Dust purchase becomes a GIANT advertisement for Eve online.

At least a portion of Dust players will become curious about this mysterious Eve game for the computer. Some players may find that they want to try giving the orders instead of taking them. This will cause an influx of new players to Eve. Conversely there will be an influx of Eve players going to Dust. Muahahaha on CCP's part. Genius!

I am guessing that corporations between Dust and Eve will be linked (as in the same corp) which would mean you can fatten your Eve wallet by doing some assault missions in Dust. (This is an excellent opportunity to use your children as ISK farmers)

Dust will also provide an excellent ISK sink in keeping colonies alive. I imagine this will also translate into higher prices for PI materials. (Good for me as a PI industrialist)

-Mal Mandrake


Once those DUST players find out how long it actually takes for CCP to do things they might not be as appeased. The console market is very cutthorat and not as forgiving as the PC market. A FPS such as DUST can be here one minute and gone in the next 2 months..

CCP has to be serious about their endevour cause if they half-ass-step on any part of it. Console players are gonna know quite quickly and will move on to something that will more than likely be better such as your Battlefields and Modern Warfares. Basically no bullshit.. or we'll call you on it.. For sure.. By just not playing the game.. Too easy in the console market..
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#72 - 2011-10-17 13:10:49 UTC
FWIW I know many console gamers who've grown tired of FPS long ago, when I told them about Dust, they got excited as they grew tired due to the games not having a point. They'd never play eve, far too slow, they don't feel connected to a little ship. I don't claim they are representative of the gamers in the world, but they're interested.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Garbad theWeak
#73 - 2011-10-17 14:05:38 UTC
CCP Shadow wrote:
Also, DUST 514 is a different type of game from Battlefield: Something and Call of Duty: Another Something ... They're all great games in their own way, all fantastic shooters, but they don't have some of the hooks that DUST 514 will, particularly in terms of world impact and depth.
You don't have to be nostradamus to predict some fails -- warhammer, age of conan, etc all failed because they tried to remake wow. They got a few sales, then people realized they would rather just play the established franchise. Every developer believes their game is unique and special. From a gamer's perspective, most aren't -- especially yet another FPS space marine game. The "hook" of linking the games together may win a few sales...but why will they stick around once BF5 and CoD13 launch?
Astor Daeoli
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-10-17 14:07:14 UTC
CCP Shadow wrote:
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
DUST 514 is going to sink CCP, it will not compete in the world of console shooters. It will have a population of a couple thousand players who happen to be EVE players who own a PS3.

What happens to DUST 514 and EVE a year after its launch, when BF5 and CoD13 launch?


Hey Nostradamus! As long as you're predicting the future, do you also have any winning lottery numbers for next summer? Blink I'm kidding, but you do raise a point that I see quite a bit. One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that the DUST 514 player base isn't going to be entirely comprised of people who are playing EVE already. There is a great deal of interest in DUST 514 among PlayStation gamers and the future is not as gloomy as how you're picturing it.

Also, DUST 514 is a different type of game from Battlefield: Something and Call of Duty: Another Something, just as EVE Online is a different game from World of Warcraft. EVE and WoW may both be MMOs but EVE appeals to a different type of player. I do love the Battlefield titles, I play a fair amount of Black Ops, and Halo Reach has consumed a great deal of my free time. Actually I'm still playing Reach... must... have... 100% armory completion.... They're all great games in their own way, all fantastic shooters, but they don't have some of the hooks that DUST 514 will, particularly in terms of world impact and depth.

Edit: Even with the morning coffee I still spelled Nostradamus wrong. But I did want to add that we do understand your viewpoint on CCP entering a very competitive market and we fully understand that there are a number of challenges ahead for us. I do appreciate your candor. I read everything people are saying about DUST 514, the good and the bad. Just keep it coming, it is helpful. Thanks.

-- Shadow


CCP Shadow has got me seriously thinking about buying a PS4. Maybe. just maybe he can pull it off. But, you need to get your EVE dev friends working in Iceland to pump more effort into EVE's existing FiS content, and not at the expense of adding EVE Barbie, Dust-like immersion content. We need more Spade "ship" content in EVE NOT SPACE BARBIE immersion!Evil
Mitauchi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2011-10-17 16:14:35 UTC
CCP Shadow wrote:
One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that the DUST 514 player base isn't going to be entirely comprised of people who are playing EVE already. There is a great deal of interest in DUST 514 among PlayStation gamers and the future is not as gloomy as how you're picturing it.

CCP Shadow, or any dev I welcome:


? who are these guys, I haven't personally noticed a mass of DUST communities anywhere and there isn't an official community site -- could you guys put up a board soon?

[/quote]

I think it has been hard to notice the arrival of new communities into Eve with so many older Eve players leaving the game or at least "taking a break from it" If you look at communities such as the MAG community for PS3 there are quite a few players that are really looking forward to DUST 514. Fan blogs and Fan communities have already begun to appear for this game.

http://www.dust514.org/
http://magvets.blogspot.com/
http://dust514base.blogspot.com/
Mitauchi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-10-17 16:18:08 UTC
Garbad theWeak wrote:
CCP Shadow wrote:
Also, DUST 514 is a different type of game from Battlefield: Something and Call of Duty: Another Something ... They're all great games in their own way, all fantastic shooters, but they don't have some of the hooks that DUST 514 will, particularly in terms of world impact and depth.
You don't have to be nostradamus to predict some fails -- warhammer, age of conan, etc all failed because they tried to remake wow. They got a few sales, then people realized they would rather just play the established franchise. Every developer believes their game is unique and special. From a gamer's perspective, most aren't -- especially yet another FPS space marine game. The "hook" of linking the games together may win a few sales...but why will they stick around once BF5 and CoD13 launch?



Having played Space Marines I can tell you that the content of what is described in DUST 514 in nothing like Space Marines. Just curious if anyone has read up on the actual games you compare or just throw wild comments around. Just sayin' Roll
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#77 - 2011-10-17 17:30:23 UTC
CCP Shadow wrote:
I play a fair amount of Black Ops, and Halo Reach has consumed a great deal of my free time. Actually I'm still playing Reach... must... have... 100% armory completion.... They're all great games in their own way, all fantastic shooters, but they don't have some of the hooks that DUST 514 will, particularly in terms of world impact and depth.

-- Shadow


This might be true but as it stands no one knows how that 'world impact and depth' will actually manifest itself.

We know the markets will be, at least in some fashion, linked. What is completely unknown is what relevance the DUST resources, products and consumables will have for EVE players or vice versa.

There remains a very considerable risk that the apparent depth of DUST/EVE is a superficial one - one in which as soon as players scratch the surface they will realize that DUST mercs are an irrelevance to EVE players just as EVE players would be irrelevant to DUST mercs.

To date CCP has remained silent on this most crucial of issues.

I suspect that this is due to one of the following factors:

A. The interaction hasn't even been thought of yet. There are a few 'post it' notes but nothing tangible.
B. The interaction has been planned, but not revealed to EVE for fear of a probably lash back by the community (probably NEX related)
C. The interaction is so watered down that it needs major pre release hype to make it sound plausible.

C.
Causalitii Eullon
Catalyst Consortium
#78 - 2011-10-17 21:54:26 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Haven't read the whole thread but my 2 cents: I only started playing EvE to give me a better understanding of the mechanics of DUST 514 when it's released. Since then I've begun to really like EvE and have no plans on canceling my acct when I start playing DUST. I'd bet there's quite a few out there like me.

You give me hope for dust but not for ccp. Like you said you are new but you also are too new to understand ccp and their failures to listen to its membership and take thier advice.

As much as I hate him, the csm has been doing a good job and I feel is going to help eve but there is only so much one can do

I personally am ready for more riots in jita and just general boycott of eve and all ccp games if they cant pull their arrogant heads out of their ass
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2011-10-17 22:55:50 UTC
PS3

I have more space likes than you. 
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#80 - 2011-10-17 23:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
It should be a smash hit with the ex-military FPS crowd and achievement whores, which is a good percentage of the online FPS player population. If CCP can keep up the new content for a year or so they should have a game that can last.


EDIT: That is if it is put out in a polished form and full of content. /crosses fingers and hopes


Slade