EVE General Discussion

[UPDATE]
CCPFoxFour has acknowledged the fact that the NPC AI change is not ready, but is planning on pushing it in retribution anyway.
If you find this unacceptable or even if you support it, please go post feedback in his thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

CCP FoxFour wrote:

Hey guys, I have been a bit silent here and for that I apologize. An update on where we stand with the AI changes:

As it stands we are still going ahead with pushing the change to TQ.

There is not enough people posting feedback in the thread in general, since it's kind of hidden. I really don't want this to go live without more people getting to comment on it, as I feel that would be unfair for everyone involved.
[/UPDATE]

To start with, this is a thread about the play style of finding and killing people running anomalies in null sec. If that's not something you're interested in, then I apologize for tricking you into my thread. The reason I am making this thread is to make more people aware of the proposed changes, since they are fairly hidden at the moment, and to bring to your attention why I think said changes are a bad idea.

So CCP are planning on upgrading the AI in anomalies and missions, which sounds great! The problem is they are planning on changing AI in such a way that will be severely detrimental to people attempting to gank people in those anomalies.
AI is being redesigned to prioritise targets based on a number of criteria, instead of just having them stay on whatever they start on. In particular, NPCs will target ships of the same class (frigates will target frigates etc) with highest priority.
For the ordinary ratter all this means is NPCs closer to drone size than the ratters ship size will go for their drones, so they'll have to either take them out first or micro drones around this fact (which is kind of cool).

What this means for people soloing in a stealth bomber specifically hunting these ratters, is your play-style is gone. CCP FoxFour has explicitly said you can no longer do this. Poof; content and play style gone.

I don't think it is acceptable to straight up remove a style of play and an avenue of content for no real reason. I've yet to see any major content added to the game as a result of the AI change, so I don't understand how CCP can justify this.

What this means for people who tackle ratters in interceptors with a fleet waiting nearby, the already heavily favored ratter (minimum of 50 seconds to scan down and land on grid after spiking local: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZP9NZ-I0IE&hd=1 for example) now has another defense should they be bad enough to get tackled in the first place; interceptors die very, very quickly to frigate rats. The ratter can simply leave frigate rats alive, and be virtually immune to all forms of danger while they PvE their hearts out in the "danger zone" of 0.0.

To be honest, I doubt even ratters would advocate these changes to their safety. Most competent ratters know they are already basically immune to ganks if they are prudent in monitoring local, so I don't see them asking for more help in this regard. The changes are probably a positive thing for ratters overall, maybe they make missions more engaging or whatever, so don't get me wrong in that regard.

Here are the links of CCPFoxFour talking about the changes
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1994441#post1994441
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155703&find=unread

I'm interested to see what ratters and other players think of this, since I only have the point of view of someone who's primary source of enjoyment in the game is about to be removed.

Edit: I also didn't mention people who like to roam solo in a Thrasher to do the same sort of thing the stealth bombers do. That's also dead and gone if these changes happen. Rejoice, denizens of fountain, no more of this stuff.
I should also mention that frigates are not the only thing affected by this. If you attempt to gank a carrier with battlecruisers for example, those battlecruisers are going to have to tank rats since they are closer to the rats size than the carrier is, which makes an already hard task a lot harder.

Edit2:
Running list of play styles negatively affected or destroyed by this change:

Solo hunting ratters in a stealth bomber
Solo hunting ratters in a destroyer
Tackling ratters in an interceptor (in particular, battleships and above, since the cruisers and below will EWAR and shoot the interceptor)
Mission flipping (even high sec rats will shoot the mission flipping frigate now)
Ninja salvaging
Awoxing (now you have to train into something that can tank the rats EWAR AND the mission runner before you can awox)

Its good, but I see your whine.

You are sad that you cannot take advantage of all the aggro being on the ratter, with you to soak him as well


The new system will make you possible a target as well.

Perfect! Lets face it, it is a bad game mechanic that let that happen in the first place, and you should be a target, after all the enemy hates you too.

Suck it up princess

Look man, CCP doesn't want you picking off from their grubby, money-grinding, PLEX-buying herd. It's not really news at this point. Every single change from now on is going to be focused on the demographic they believe to be their company's future.

The best thing we can do is adapt, as usual. That way we can at least have a few more months of the status quo, until they patch up their error in judgement by deeming tackling in general an exploit.


You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid.

Not often you see the most perfect response to someone crying like a little baby, but I think this thread can die, no one can respond better then this.

Oh okay, my bad. I didn't realise you had come to that conclusion and that you were the authority on NPC targeting mechanics.

Rofl Destiny. +1 :)

It creates what another poster calls "POCKET CONCORD" (I prefer my own term, "BearShield" :) ) in null sec.

I am the nulliest of null-bears, I love me some forsaken hubs and some fleet staging points that come from them, its more likely to die in an anom to gankers than gank someone in an anom.

I benefit greatly from this change, not only from the added protection (i'll just kill the NPC frigs and destroyers last, and laugh HARD when those frigs and dessies aggro and instatpop the purifier that just came into MY Sanctum of Haven lol), but also from the new method of controlling aggro through EWAR threat management, which will allow my triple boxing ratting Battleships to do something I don't do now, which is use drones "drone bunny" style like in incursions. 300 more dps = more isk in my wallet....

It's a really really bad thing, ccp chainging the AI in old content instead of doing a comprehensive redesign, even if I'm already thinking of ways to totally exploit it all. Of course, the more short sighted null bears will be rejoicing....till they fine out this change ALSO makes the high end DEDs something you wouldn't want to risk a faction battleship in anymore.......

That's just inviting them to post more lol.

And their short-sightenness will continue on and on. You can tell that the people who support this don't really think it will negatively affect them.

But it will, and im gonna lul, sometime shortly after December 3rd of this year.

I believe another point is that with the AI changes, 2 mini professions (Ninja salvaging/baiting and solo/small gang player vs ratter) get flushed down the toilet with nothing in return.

In effect CCP is removing content from the people who choose to play like this, and helping the people who rat/mission.

(High end Plexes will not benefit from this, since you cannot run them anymore with tank/dps setup)

They took our jobs.



It isn't non-challenging; If the ratter in question is paying attention, there is no way he can be caught.
Thats right, No way to get caught making boatloads of isk, they'll only lose ships when they stop paying attention
and go watch the newest episode of naruto while making spacebucks.

Your argument was that you were supposedly coming to save the Sanshas with your little stealth bomber. Who's being stupid?

You're defending the status quo because it upsets your gameplay and you might have to change tactics. Boo hoo.

0.0 - the NEW highsec !

So seriously now. You want to go bombing down on another dude who is targetted by NPC's but you do not want those NPC's to target you in turn, because it's unfair, it breaks your previous mode of play ? Because you are "helping" the NPC's ?

I have read ridiculous posts before in these forums and I must tell you Capqu, what you want rates as ridiculous.

Hey I have an idea for you ! How about your get positive standings with the NPC's so that they don't attack you ?
Oh wait, no such thing ?

A man walks into a bar, pulls out a gun and starts shooting and killing the hoarde of trolls in the bar, who are in turn shooting at him en-masse. You walk in and start shooting at the man. The trolls reckon "wtf? who is this?" and start shooting at you as well, just because you're not wearing their uniform.

Just saying. Goose and gander story, you know.