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Buff Ganking--Nevermind, Nerfed Again

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#61 - 2012-10-02 20:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.




This is what finally high sec is becoming to gankers. A real cold harsh universe instead of a brainless-no-consequence activity

Except that it requires brains and has consequences.

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss

Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall

OK next argument?

[edit: it came already!]

Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Oh, but wait! I wrote another thread about that topic.



No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.


Oh really? How leet must one be to sit in a 35k EHP mining ship and AFK mine all day without risk of player-induced death (or any other death for that matter)?

Because I think that must require a SERIOUS pair.

[/edit]

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-10-02 20:43:09 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...


The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.


Your last sentence is really well said, though I'm not sure it's a problem, per-se.

Relaxing while playing Eve seems a lot to me like trying to take a cat nap while playing Gran Turismo 5. Sure, you can set the computer up to run your races for you, but then you're not playing a game, you're watching the result of a computer playing a game.

CCP clearly says they want players attentive and at their keyboards. The mining buff seems to send the opposite message. The only way I can see for CCP to remain consistent in this message is to buff ganking (at least somewhat) to re-introduce the concept of risk to miners.

A bonus effect would be an improvement in ore and mineral prices for those miners who continue to mine successfully after such a ganking buff. Evil


We could only know if it's a problem if we ahd the stats on how many people try EvE and quit insetad of continuing playing the game. If most people quit, then something in the game reduce the growth and at some point, thats less money for CCP. The current player can be happy but it does not mean thast teh final target of CCP.

As for mining, they could always amke roinds contain at most 1 cycle of ore. You would need to be at the keyboard to target new roids all the time. They could also lets say require scanning small but numerous belts with the default ship scanner (using probe would require an additionnal high slot and probing skill which would be a major hassle for beginner) containing just a few rocks then you have to move again. This force the player to be at the keyboard. Anyone who would want to mine AFK would first need to scan a grav site to have sufficient rocks to semi-afk. A change to ice would be required too but nothing is impossible. You don't really need to put miners in danger of being ganked to make them at the keyboard.

Ganking is just not automatically the solution to everything. Hulkageddon didn't make people fit ship with a ebtter tank even if some people were ganking with losses because GSF was feeding them isk for every 10 kills or something. They were making thier money back on the quantity but barge/exhumer were killed in droves and yet people were not tanking all that much more by the end just before the barge changes.

Unless you blow someone up faster than he can mine himself, killing his ship only really slow him down.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#63 - 2012-10-02 20:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...


The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.


Your last sentence is really well said, though I'm not sure it's a problem, per-se.

Relaxing while playing Eve seems a lot to me like trying to take a cat nap while playing Gran Turismo 5. Sure, you can set the computer up to run your races for you, but then you're not playing a game, you're watching the result of a computer playing a game.

CCP clearly says they want players attentive and at their keyboards. The mining buff seems to send the opposite message. The only way I can see for CCP to remain consistent in this message is to buff ganking (at least somewhat) to re-introduce the concept of risk to miners.

A bonus effect would be an improvement in ore and mineral prices for those miners who continue to mine successfully after such a ganking buff. Evil


We could only know if it's a problem if we ahd the stats on how many people try EvE and quit insetad of continuing playing the game. If most people quit, then something in the game reduce the growth and at some point, thats less money for CCP. The current player can be happy but it does not mean thast teh final target of CCP.

As for mining, they could always amke roinds contain at most 1 cycle of ore. You would need to be at the keyboard to target new roids all the time. They could also lets say require scanning small but numerous belts with the default ship scanner (using probe would require an additionnal high slot and probing skill which would be a major hassle for beginner) containing just a few rocks then you have to move again. This force the player to be at the keyboard. Anyone who would want to mine AFK would first need to scan a grav site to have sufficient rocks to semi-afk. A change to ice would be required too but nothing is impossible. You don't really need to put miners in danger of being ganked to make them at the keyboard.

Ganking is just not automatically the solution to everything. Hulkageddon didn't make people fit ship with a ebtter tank even if some people were ganking with losses because GSF was feeding them isk for every 10 kills or something. They were making thier money back on the quantity but barge/exhumer were killed in droves and yet people were not tanking all that much more by the end just before the barge changes.

Unless you blow someone up faster than he can mine himself, killing his ship only really slow him down.


Let me put this as simply as possible:

Eve Online needs more adaptable players, not more rigid ones. If players won't use the tools available, CCP should not be expected to do it for them. It's not good for the LONG-TERM health of the game for these people to be treated differently just because they voted with their dollars (and whined and whined and whined) instead of adapting to the game.

Let's put it another way: Casinos don't set their games up for a guaranteed win just because their business hits a slow spot. But that's what CCP did to mining.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2012-10-02 20:52:51 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:


No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.


Clearly you don't get it. Its not that CCP has made it harder, its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit. They have also rendered the Skiff pointless because the Mack is unprofitable to gank with nothing fitted which means the Mack is the king of miners. The whole point of the barge buff was to end the one barge rules them all situation.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-10-02 21:12:39 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.




This is what finally high sec is becoming to gankers. A real cold harsh universe instead of a brainless-no-consequence activity

Except that it requires brains and has consequences.

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss

Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall

OK next argument?



You don't have to deal with:

Neutrals passing by there and joining the party finishing for you in a fresh pod and not a single kill except yours.
50 men or whatever number hot drop
Not being able to dock in entire regions
Reds in local expecting you to show up and blow yer face (yep Concord protects you very well against those)

And I'll stop here, there are so many more but these are enough to show how little consequence high sec ganking has.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-10-02 21:17:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit.


CCP already stated ganking was never intended to be profitable. However, high sec freighters ganking shows it is and this is players fault.

So can you please say again ganking is not profitable?

brb
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#67 - 2012-10-02 21:28:41 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.




This is what finally high sec is becoming to gankers. A real cold harsh universe instead of a brainless-no-consequence activity

Except that it requires brains and has consequences.

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss

Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall

OK next argument?



You don't have to deal with:

Neutrals passing by there and joining the party finishing for you in a fresh pod and not a single kill except yours.
50 men or whatever number hot drop
Not being able to dock in entire regions
Reds in local expecting you to show up and blow yer face (yep Concord protects you very well against those)

And I'll stop here, there are so many more but these are enough to show how little consequence high sec ganking has.


Neutrals? I have to deal with those.

50 man hot drop? Been there, done that.

Not being able to dock in entire regions? Are you kidding? There are tons of regions where I can't dock. Tons.

Reds in local? Jesus, I see that all the time. And CONCORD doesn't exist where I live, so they protect NOTHING.

Did you have any real points?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#68 - 2012-10-02 21:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Darth Gustav wrote:

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss



1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose (where have I heard that before)
2. Minor and temporary
3. see 2
4. see 3

Just requires you know, effort.

Darth Gustav wrote:


Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall


Can't beat that argument. The charitable work for the betterment of the miner by people who are not miners is heartening and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Pfft.. Said it before and I'll say it again.

1) If you're a miner, HTFU, tank/dont tank'whatever. Deal with it.
2) If you're a ganker. Stop BS about balance/economics whatever to justify it. Just kill it.

But consider these points:-

If killing a MINING DRILL (that's what it is) was meant to be PROFITABLE then GAME BALANCE was wrong to begin with. (Perhaps CCP saw the absurdity in that single point and it all has nothing to being "fair".)

Economic POV. Ganking a mining vessel should ONLY BE PROFITABLE if you are a buyer/seller of ore. The vessel itself should always be no more than a busted tool after a gank.

Irony POV. When MinerMan told to fit tank he (used to?) put faction stuff on because it was only proper way to do it, and it was the TANK that made him profitable.

HTFU POV. The ganker was given a class of vessel that mounts large and costs nothing. What more they need? Get a group of friends together, you know, Eve is a GROUP game, and make the kill.

COMMONSENSE POV. If it DOESN'T make a profit - duh, do something else.


Isn't that what EVERYONE ELSE is told 'round here or does it ONLY apply to highseccers/carebears and noobs?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-10-02 21:38:17 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Care Bears should be able to mission away to their little hearts are content in completely safety, free from the actions of dicks that just want to f*ck them over.


You're playing the wrong game if you want a safe, boring carebear wonderland.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#70 - 2012-10-02 21:39:12 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss



1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose (where have I heard that before)
2. Minor and temporary
3. see 2
4. see 3

Just requires you know, effort.

Darth Gustav wrote:


Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall


Can't beat that argument. The charitable work for the betterment of the miner by people who are not miners is heartening and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Pfft.. Said it before and I'll say it again.

1) If you're a miner, HTFU, tank/dont tank'whatever. Deal with it.
2) If you're a ganker. Stop BS about balance/economics whatever to justify it. Just kill it.

But consider these points:-

If killing a MINING DRILL (that's what it is) was meant to be PROFITABLE then GAME BALANCE was wrong to begin with. (Perhaps CCP saw the absurdity in that single point and it all has nothing to being "fair".)

Economic POV. Ganking a mining vessel should ONLY BE PROFITABLE if you are a buyer/seller of ore. The vessel itself should always be no more than a busted tool after a gank.

Irony POV. When MinerMan told to fit tank he (used to?) put faction stuff on because it was only proper way to do it, and it was the TANK that made him profitable.

HTFU POV. The ganker was given a class of vessel that mounts large and costs nothing. What more they need? Get a group of friends together, you know, Eve is a GROUP game, and make the kill.

COMMONSENSE POV. If it DOESN'T make a profit - duh, do something else.


Isn't that what EVERYONE ELSE is told 'round here or does it ONLY apply to highseccers/carebears and noobs?


Everyone else in Eve besides miners has a legitimate risk intervening between them and profit.

The recent buff removed the risk to mining.

The consequences are already visible in the market.

Everyone else has risk. What does a miner risk now, after the buff?

Maybe he risks flying the wrong ship?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-10-02 21:40:46 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit.


CCP already stated ganking was never intended to be profitable. However, high sec freighters ganking shows it is and this is players fault.

So can you please say again ganking is not profitable?


It's not supposed to be profitable at the base level. If a player chooses to fill their cargohold full of yummy-yums, that's their fault & CCP shouldn't cater to such stupidity.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Elinarien
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-10-02 22:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elinarien
Darth Gustav wrote:


Everyone else in Eve besides miners has a legitimate risk intervening between them and profit.

The recent buff removed the risk to mining.

The consequences are already visible in the market.

Everyone else has risk. What does a miner risk now, after the buff?

Maybe he risks flying the wrong ship?


Since when has risk been removed? Don't confuse profitability of ganking with the ability to gank. Two very different aspects.

However, what is also ludicrous is that you guys keep going on and on about the Mak being this and that yet you're missing the one ship that completely renders any kind of profitable high sec miner ganking almost impossible - a tier 1 fitted and tanked procurer. Never has more than 2 mil of ore in the hold and you'll be lucky to get couple of mil for the mods should they drop and a hull that costs approx 8 mil. Almost like lining up dessie replacements for rvb.

edit - quote broken
Olleybear
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2012-10-02 22:11:21 UTC
Hmm. Old enough here to remember the poo flying from another 'ganker' nerf. Back then it was warp to zero. People flinging poo like caged monkeys when that occured. Predictions of piracys end were foretold. All the while the poo flingers could catch people jumping into system if they tried half heartedly instead of relying on their target being 15km from a gate when the target was traveling.

Piracy has not stopped over the years as a result of warp to zero.

Ganking barges will still occur regardless of all the poo currently on the walls as well.

If someone aggravates me enough that I am thinking about ganking them in hi-sec, it is not going to matter that their barge was buffed. I'm going to adapt and catch that mouthy bugger on the undock when his hardners are turned off. Is it challenging? Yup. Thats why the revenge is that much sweeter when you succeed.

There is nothing wrong with the mining ship buff as is. I'm happy to see miners have more choices and can both tank and have nice yields just like my Vargur can tank and have nice dps at the same time.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#74 - 2012-10-02 22:15:52 UTC
Elinarien wrote:

Since when has risk been removed? Don't confuse profitability of ganking with the ability to gank. Two very different aspects.

In one.

MinerMan still lose 150-200m.
GankerMan still only lose 30m.

The profit goes to..... wait for it...... the T2 producer. TA DA!!!

Oh wait, that's....??

Go figure.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Ginger Barbarella
#75 - 2012-10-02 22:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
baltec1 wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:


No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.


Clearly you don't get it. Its not that CCP has made it harder, its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit. They have also rendered the Skiff pointless because the Mack is unprofitable to gank with nothing fitted which means the Mack is the king of miners. The whole point of the barge buff was to end the one barge rules them all situation.


You want your easy kills back and hide it under the guise of making profit. CCP gave the gankers a very nice run with a ship line customized for ganking: the Tier 3 Battlecruisers. Many of you "profited" during this period before the hammer came down because someone figured out an exploit to get max kills in a short period of time. Congrats to that person. Now you're back to having to work for the kills, but you complain. No Easy Button. So some few have figured out that if you get large gangs together, do some REAL intelligence work, and hit freighters, you can make a profit. Serious props there for doing something REAL. But that's too much work for those that choose to "profit" on easy kills in mining belts.

It's not about profit, so give me a break. It's about easy kills for a variety of reasons I leave you to think about. You want profit, but insist on easy kills? Go wardec some mining corps. Or join James666 or whatever in his 'leet mindset of bumping miners to brag about making money from them.

Edit: used "ban" up there when no ban happened (that I know of)

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#76 - 2012-10-02 22:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexila Quant
Pipa Porto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
So are you saying that ganking 300m ship with cheap 2m T1 ship in few days old alt was balanced?
Given that that ship's owner chose not to fit any sort of tank in order to make that possible, sure it is.

Quote:
They are already rewarded... by not getting shot

No they're not. People who take no precautions are safe and people who take precautions are not safer.

They take precautions and are no better off for it than the people who take no precautions.

Quote:
low/null/wh is that way Arrow


Where does CCP say "except HS" in the tagline?

Quote:
They are already. They are ganked every day.


Not so much. They used to be, but then CCP decided to put them in swaddling clothes.


You contradicted yourself in your first two sentences lol.

>>'If they choose not to fit a tank then they made it possible to gank them'
>>'if they take precautions they are no safer than one who doesn't take precautions'
Ipso facto why fit a tank?
Paraphrasing of course, but it's all there.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-10-02 22:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit.


CCP already stated ganking was never intended to be profitable. However, high sec freighters ganking shows it is and this is players fault.

So can you please say again ganking is not profitable?


It's not supposed to be profitable at the base level. If a player chooses to fill their cargohold full of yummy-yums, that's their fault & CCP shouldn't cater to such stupidity.



Always remember that "shouldnt" in this context it's ONLY your point of view, absolutely not CCP one. As they stated quite clearly, some old mechanics, missing ones, and those not working as intended are going to be removed/changed/improved.
And this, despite so few people tears (yes I'd like to see more tears about this) is going to happen, no matter how many arguments based on those mechanic faillures exploited and abused for years, some might bring.
Doesn't matter, since the begining those arguments are only and simply based on uses you stated are "normal" when they're clearly not intended and closer to abuse/harassement then intended game play.

You have the right to love a game where you can beat up everything you want, being completely invulnerable, sell gold on the internet, insult and be rude with whoever you wish with no consequence and then beat up your contenders in game, it's totally and completely your right. I'm not saying this for you personally of course but in general terms.

This being said I'm not sure your gaming model would ever make of CCP what they became and what they can become since in the end is what matters, it's what SHOULD matter to any company and their employees: +++ $$$

Red Cross Onu etc don't build games, CCP does, difference is one being there for profit and the other too, but differently Lol
Edit: waiting to see next bounty changes and agression system but it seems to me it's bringing things on the right track.

brb
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#78 - 2012-10-02 22:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Darth Gustav wrote:
That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...


Why dont you try metaphoring with this.

Also, my 10 year old trolls better then you. Big smile
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#79 - 2012-10-02 22:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Why dont you try metaphoring with this.

Also, my 10 year old trolls better then you. Big smile


I see. So you're hard in real life like an elephant on a rhino.

You've made your point abundantly clear. Roll

Weren't we talking about a game? Evil

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#80 - 2012-10-02 23:04:35 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Everyone else in Eve besides miners has a legitimate risk intervening between them and profit.

The recent buff removed the risk to mining.

The consequences are already visible in the market.

Everyone else has risk. What does a miner risk now, after the buff?

Maybe he risks flying the wrong ship?

MinerMan is ALWAYS at risk. YOU CAN still gank him. YOU have decided that YOUR risk is no longer viable. MinerMan simply saw the cross being carried by someone else instead of them.

I will concede that forum whining on ganking might have tipped the scales on this topic. If that's so, maybe we're all missing ONE KEY POINT.

CCP had the numbers. Numbers may have said fix this.

Now ask yourself, how many lost subs CCP have to wear if all the gankers ragequit? Care to guess?

Maybe we need to be asking whether there is any correlation between rising subs and rising logins SINCE the "fix". I dunno.

Like I said, CCP have the numbers.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."