Player Features and Ideas Discussion

seriously this new one will just kill t2's 50% less flight time than t1's and t1s are being cut by 35% giving heavy furies a total of a 75% flight time reduction over now not to mention a massive 72% explosive radius increase at these kinda figure as standard even criuser sized targets stationary dont even take full dmg from furys.

really 50% increase in explosive raius is enough and there flight time dont need reduced any more than what they will be.

just lol.



Do you actually understand what I wrote there?



this has been elaborated pretty well on around page 150 or 160 of this thread.



Err, no. Amarr are fine with their BS and Zealot. The Harbinger is a fair bit behind Drake and esp Cane, but also not completely broken. Gallente have trouble, yes. And Caldari do too, because they have just 2 useful combat ships atm. But if its needed to nerf them - again! - I wont object. As long as other OP stuff is nerfed too, and afterwards we see balance, with 4 or 5 of each race in top 20, and maybe some pirate ships too. Although due to their price tag I would understand if they dont come out top in this specific ranking ;)

Now when I come with beams (43+8) you will say "yeah, with just EM/Therm damage", right? Sir, to find words for you I would love to quote a famous french football player in what he said to his coach. My education doesnt permit that though :). Fly safe, and best regards.

and you are doing right in saying so.
thatswhy we see a cane powergrid nerf. which is totally fine. ( and no, Lin-Young Borovskova , i still think the cane will be an excellent ship ;) ) i even go further and dare to say, when tiericide reaches the BCs there may be another cane nerf.
but unfortunally this is a thread dedicated mostly to heavy missiles and their issues. so naturally the focus is is on them.

you want a ton of useful ships, i want a ton of useful ships. but then i get the impression people, who start yelling winmatar everytime the word balancing comes up, are not going to rest until every minmatar hull which is successful has a 30% build in handycap.

i guess no matter what to say, this "argument" could go on and on.

Yeah, that you think the Drake will only see use as a tank. And no I think you are getting overly dramatic about the HM nerf. Drakes will still be fielded in small(er) gangs they just won't be the go to ship for almost everyone. I love mixed gangs. I really don't like monoculture fleets. It is one reason why I left null sec. After this nerf I still foresee BCs being used, but not as the ubiquitous Drake/Cane gangs. These two nerfs restore more balance in tier 2 while nerfing the two ships that were used as cheap stand ins for what otherwise might be BSs. These two nerfs have me seeing more mixed BC gangs, opening up a place for Harbys and Myrms to be part of the mix. And of course the possibility of ASBs on all of the BCs




Well, I've been following this thread, but I don't remember any lengthy discusison on Zealots. It might help if you elaborate what exactly has been elaborated on. And, what in my statment you disagree with, if anything.


I simply do not understand how you are missing the representation of Rokhs and Nagas? As for nerfing all the op stuff it simply can't be done at the same time. There is so much these guys are working on. They can't get to it all at one time. But at least with this nerf they did something about the number one ship imbalance that was in the game. And they also addressed the glaring disparites in medium weapons systems which they had to do in order to perform their Cruiser rebalancing.

Target painters have great range... I think farther than HML's can even go. (counting falloff).

and yes you are right with the skills, etc.; but use precision missiles against the cruisers; then switch to furies for the bigger stuff.

im talking purely pve liu and yes my calcs are bassed on the new sigs so now i gotta reduce shield for a tp wtf ?

At the moment i´m really starting to get fed up with everyone continuesly talking about drakes and tengu´s and comparing guns with missiles, and nobody actually looking at the gameplay issues what these changes will do.

With these changes, the entire missile line will be so broken that no single ship designed on missiles can be redesigned properly.

Well have missiles that cant fully damage the same size ships, even when stationary.
Well have missiles that will be faster then lighter variants. You´ll be able to out fly light and cruise missiles, yet heavy missiles will still catch you.
You'll have 2 short range TII ammo's on long range weapon platform and only T1 and Faction ammo to use for longer range.
You'll have a weapon systems designed to compete with eachother after skills instead of before skills so skill difference will have a lesser impact.

At this time i'm feeling the urge to just vote for removeing the drake and missile launcher subsystems of the tengu out of the game completly so people would actually start looking at what these changes will actually do for the game instead for there petty little self intrest.

These changes are not balancing, there certainly not the blueprint of a stable weapon system on wich to base ship hulls on and i'll explain why.

Like Gun tracking missiles do adjusting damage compared to speed. Unlike guns this is all speed, and not transversal speed. This means that no matter wich direction a ship is moveing you always have the same tracking penalty (as if shooting at optimized transversal). Due to this missiles damage is completly different then gun damage. Comparing them is no use what so ever. Like gun damage missile damage is also relevant to size. Unlike guns missiles have there own speed wich can be used to extend or shorten the range of your weapon, if the target is flying towards, or away from you. These are all unique characteristics wich make missiles different. In order to balance the weapon system a few things need to also be looked at.

With future planned TE, TC's and TD affecting missiles its verry unwise to suddenly start shifting missile speeds on different sized modules. The missile speeds for long range (be it light, heavy or cruise) should be the same otherwise TE, TC's and TD will affect the speeds of those missiles in an irregular manner. Eg: a 10% flight speed reduction on the host ship, will still make heavy missiles fly faster then light missiles. This will make the light missile in (extreme?) cases not be able to hit frigates, while the heavy missiles will. This is not something that is desired! Balanceing the missile range SHOULD be done by Flight time alone.

Weapon size and ship size (explosion radius / sig radius) should be on par with its intended targets. that means a t1 missile should be able to do full damage to a similar sized ship (wich is a cruiser) with this explosion radius difference on HML you will not be able to do this. In fact, you'll need to use missiles designed to hit smaller targets, to be able to get the 100% damage ratio to your same sized ship.

Also with these missile changes, a Precision Cruise missile will do MORE damage on a cruiser then a T1 heavy missile on a cruiser, while a Precision Heavy missile will do LESS damage on a frigate then a t1 light missile.

These are the things you need to adress in this topic, not if the raven should better for mission running then a tengu. Its The basics of missiles that needs to be discussed NOT the ships that haven't even be redesigned yet!

((Sorry for those who feel offended etc starting to get a little bid annoyed by some posters ))

thank you your right though i dont think base (without skills) even t1 missles can hit for full dmg on stationary targets

for all of those that are saying switch to hams here something to consider it said all missle so hams will also be affected and seing hams dont actualy benifit from skill for drcressed explosive radius they aint gonna be able to hit the side of a barn