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Buff Ganking--Nevermind, Nerfed Again

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2012-10-02 19:10:41 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I think the reason many people didnt tank thier ship is somewhat linked to cross training for all the required skill reduced thier percived progression. Of course it's stupid to see it that way but even when I started 2 months ago, I was chain training mining and boat skill to get better yields total. The support stuff seemed useless to me back then because I wanted to mine and not fight. All that shield, armor and resistance were not linked to what I wanted to do so to hell with that right. It's a bad way of doing it but I am pretty sure many people saw it like that when they make mining thier carrer. I guess gettign ganked is supposed to be learning the hard way. Too bad some people get nothign out of this "class".


No doubt. The same can be said for hauler pilots and salvagers. Unfortunatly many people dont seem to be able to learn lessons when they get blown up. I spent 8 months giving out fittings and tactics to miners and they still died by the hundreds. When CCP went into testing the barge upgrades it wasn't the miners helping them with feedback it was people like me. The very people killing them sat down with CCP and tried to give them options including a gankproof ship in the form of the skiff. Unfortunatly CCP buffed the tank on the mack which means the skiff is now pointless.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-10-02 19:24:01 UTC
Kestutis Fujika wrote:
Let make it so that ur tengus and other shines would blow up from 3 thrashers or sentrys.
Since we all need to put tank.


an untanked/undertanked Tengu will die to few destroyers, just FYI

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#43 - 2012-10-02 19:30:37 UTC
I am still wondering about those pre-tanked PVP ships that let us fit for 100% efficient offensive capabilities and still survive.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#44 - 2012-10-02 19:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Yes please buff ganking...cause I dont like shooting at ships that can shoot back. I also hate my life and need to make someone somewhere rage by blowing up is ship when he least expects it.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#45 - 2012-10-02 19:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Yes please buff ganking...cause I dont like shooting at ships that can shoot back. I also hate my life and need to make someone somewhere rage after I killed is ship when he least expected it.

There are plenty of reasons to gank miners that don't involve hating your life or a "need to make someone somewhere rage."

As for playing games, I bet when you play Uno you always unload your Draw Fours. Even if your opponent has a handful of cards already. Even if they just got skipped. Even if your opponent cries about it, you aren't getting caught with those Draw Fours in-hand. You're going to play them, grief your opponent who couldn't play because you skipped them, and win the game.

Eve is a game, too. If people cry over a game, that's too bad.

When you undock in Eve you can be shot.

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.

HTFU much?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#46 - 2012-10-02 19:58:38 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Yes please buff ganking...cause I dont like shooting at ships that can shoot back. I also hate my life and need to make someone somewhere rage after I killed is ship when he least expected it.

There are plenty of reasons to gank miners that don't involve hating your life or a "need to make someone somewhere rage."

As for playing games, I bet when you play Uno you always unload your Draw Fours. Even if your opponent has a handful of cards already. Even if they just got skipped. Even if your opponent cries about it, you aren't getting caught with those Draw Fours in-hand. You're going to play them, grief your opponent who couldn't play because you skipped them, and win the game.

Eve is a game, too. If people cry over a game, that's too bad.

When you undock in Eve you can be shot.

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.

HTFU much?


I dont need Eve to HTFU. I do that in real life.

As for UNO, never played that game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2012-10-02 20:01:15 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:


As for UNO, never played that game.


Oh you should.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-10-02 20:02:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I think the reason many people didnt tank thier ship is somewhat linked to cross training for all the required skill reduced thier percived progression. Of course it's stupid to see it that way but even when I started 2 months ago, I was chain training mining and boat skill to get better yields total. The support stuff seemed useless to me back then because I wanted to mine and not fight. All that shield, armor and resistance were not linked to what I wanted to do so to hell with that right. It's a bad way of doing it but I am pretty sure many people saw it like that when they make mining thier carrer. I guess gettign ganked is supposed to be learning the hard way. Too bad some people get nothign out of this "class".


No doubt. The same can be said for hauler pilots and salvagers. Unfortunatly many people dont seem to be able to learn lessons when they get blown up. I spent 8 months giving out fittings and tactics to miners and they still died by the hundreds. When CCP went into testing the barge upgrades it wasn't the miners helping them with feedback it was people like me. The very people killing them sat down with CCP and tried to give them options including a gankproof ship in the form of the skiff. Unfortunatly CCP buffed the tank on the mack which means the skiff is now pointless.


CCP will need to find a better way to teach if they ever want to stop flooding small countries with tears...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-10-02 20:04:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:


As for UNO, never played that game.


Oh you should.


I played "8" with regular decks of cards instead. The rules were pretty similar to uno tho but with a few added rules which enabled **** moves sometime. Unloading a 4 of a kind of "2" to make someone draw 10 card on a single turn or 4 jacks to skip the next 4 turns...

HTFU UNO players!
Ginger Barbarella
#50 - 2012-10-02 20:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
captain foivos wrote:
Retribution is all about balancing ships and what not, so why not balance out ganking a bit while you're at it? Over the last eight years, ganking has been nerfed nearly into the ground, with only a few select groups of highly skilled, well funded individuals continuing to separate stupid highsec mongoloids from their precious shiny things. Why not buff immoral activity for a change? Reward smart people for taking basic precautions against dying and loss, like not traveling around with billions in their hold, not clicking on the contracts in Jita local, and not traveling the Rancer Pipe with hundreds of PLEX in the cargo bay.

Ganking keeps getting hit with more and more nerfs: pretty soon there won't be that "cold harsh universe" left that CCP keeps going on about in their promos. EVE belongs to the violent, the venal, and the brilliant. Buff ganking. Nerf dumb people.


I would sign on to your suggestions 100% under one condition: any ganking attempt, successful or otherwise, results in an immediate -10 security AND faction standing hit, and ganker is immediately ejected in his pod to null somewhere randomly, and is unable to enter any space above .4 in any way, shape or form.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#51 - 2012-10-02 20:09:39 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Yes please buff ganking...cause I dont like shooting at ships that can shoot back. I also hate my life and need to make someone somewhere rage after I killed is ship when he least expected it.

There are plenty of reasons to gank miners that don't involve hating your life or a "need to make someone somewhere rage."

As for playing games, I bet when you play Uno you always unload your Draw Fours. Even if your opponent has a handful of cards already. Even if they just got skipped. Even if your opponent cries about it, you aren't getting caught with those Draw Fours in-hand. You're going to play them, grief your opponent who couldn't play because you skipped them, and win the game.

Eve is a game, too. If people cry over a game, that's too bad.

When you undock in Eve you can be shot.

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.

HTFU much?


I dont need Eve to HTFU. I do that in real life.

As for UNO, never played that game.

That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-10-02 20:12:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Things are not balanced by cost


Are you saying that ganker should be able to profitable gank my ship if I tank my ship properly (this means I use money and cost goes up)?
Elinarien
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-10-02 20:12:47 UTC
I've played many MMOs and competitive pvp games over the years but Eve is the first I've come across where people are asking for a buff to be able to take out the lowest rank of opposition.

What next? shouts across the forums to nerf the ibis / velator etc?

Personally I could not care less about ganking (my main has been in this game since early 2010 and has never been ganked) but seriously it's not good for one's image to ask for a buff to take out civvies.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#54 - 2012-10-02 20:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Retribution is all about balancing ships and what not, so why not balance out ganking a bit while you're at it? Over the last eight years, ganking has been nerfed nearly into the ground, with only a few select groups of highly skilled, well funded individuals continuing to separate stupid highsec mongoloids from their precious shiny things. Why not buff immoral activity for a change? Reward smart people for taking basic precautions against dying and loss, like not traveling around with billions in their hold, not clicking on the contracts in Jita local, and not traveling the Rancer Pipe with hundreds of PLEX in the cargo bay.

Ganking keeps getting hit with more and more nerfs: pretty soon there won't be that "cold harsh universe" left that CCP keeps going on about in their promos. EVE belongs to the violent, the venal, and the brilliant. Buff ganking. Nerf dumb people.


I would sign on to your suggestions 100% under one condition: any ganking attempt, successful or otherwise, results in an immediate -10 security AND faction standing hit, and ganker is immediately ejected in his pod to null somewhere randomly, and is unable to enter any space above .4 in any way, shape or form.

Because miners clearly got a coinciding nerf with their mega-buff. Roll

Oh, but wait! I wrote another thread about that topic.

[edit]

Elinarien wrote:
I've played many MMOs and competitive pvp games over the years but Eve is the first I've come across where people are asking for a buff to be able to take out the lowest rank of opposition.

What next? shouts across the forums to nerf the ibis / velator etc?

Personally I could not care less about ganking (my main has been in this game since early 2010 and has never been ganked) but seriously it's not good for one's image to ask for a buff to take out civvies.


That's nice. Mackinaws aren't Ibises or Velators. They have a few thousand more EHP. Strawman argument is strawman.

[/edit]

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-10-02 20:20:15 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...


The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2012-10-02 20:21:38 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Things are not balanced by cost


Are you saying that ganker should be able to profitable gank my ship if I tank my ship properly (this means I use money and cost goes up)?


If said ship is carrying stuff worth more than you can tank then yes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2012-10-02 20:22:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.


Its never been the right game for those people.Blink
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#58 - 2012-10-02 20:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

That you choose to bring your real-life essence into this argument is proof-positive that you don't have much of an argument to make. You're hard in real life so you feel comfortable whining about possibly getting ganked in a game. I can certainly respect that. Roll

Are there any games you play besides Eve that I might use as a better metaphor for what it means to play a game, even one as rich as Eve?

Perhaps you play Sorry! and expect your opponents to never send your piece back to "start?" Maybe you play poker and expect your opponent to not bluff just because you've got a decent hand? I really wouldn't know. But I think you get the idea.

Being HTFU'd in RL is great. This is a game. HTFU'ing in a game should be, really, a whole lot easier than being HTFU'd in the real world. That's my two cents on this...


The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.


Your last sentence is really well said, though I'm not sure it's a problem, per-se.

Relaxing while playing Eve seems a lot to me like trying to take a cat nap while playing Gran Turismo 5. Sure, you can set the computer up to run your races for you, but then you're not playing a game, you're watching the result of a computer playing a game.

CCP clearly says they want players attentive and at their keyboards. The mining buff seems to send the opposite message. The only way I can see for CCP to remain consistent in this message is to buff ganking (at least somewhat) to re-introduce the concept of risk to miners.

A bonus effect would be an improvement in ore and mineral prices for those miners who continue to mine successfully after such a ganking buff. Evil

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-10-02 20:34:52 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.




This is what finally high sec is becoming to gankers. A real cold harsh universe instead of a brainless-no-consequence activity

brb
Ginger Barbarella
#60 - 2012-10-02 20:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Darth Gustav wrote:

Oh, but wait! I wrote another thread about that topic.



No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac