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why people complain about the missile buff?
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Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#1 - 2012-10-02 15:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ager Agemo
i dont understand why people is complaining so much about the missile changes when they are actually getting a net buff specially for PVP and only 1 of all the 8 missiles, got a nerf that achieves finally a decent balance compared to its size.

Also, correct me if wrong... but now a phoenix can fit tracking computers to effectively use Citadel missiles against sub capital ships?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#2 - 2012-10-02 15:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
Ager Agemo wrote:
i dont understand why people is complaining so much about the missile changes when they are actually getting a net buff specially for PVP and only 1 of all the 8 missiles, got a nerf that achieves finally a decent balance compared to its size.

Also, correct me if right... but now a phoenix can fit tracking computers to effectively use Citadel missiles against sub capital ships?


Yup, yup and yup.

People are just crying because their 100mn tengus and mission drakes aren't going to work so well anymore... Cool

"ALLL MY SKIILLL POINTS!!!!" - Ya, and 50,000 other people who didn't choose to train overpowered nonsense, what do they get?

Oh right, nothing.

Just whining.

Where I am.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#3 - 2012-10-02 15:32:48 UTC
They complain because CCP listens then they don't get nerfed as hard.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-10-02 15:32:55 UTC
because the only missiles in existence are the heavy ones on their tengu and drake

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#5 - 2012-10-02 15:32:55 UTC
Oh sweet another missile thread!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#6 - 2012-10-02 15:35:01 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Oh sweet another missile thread!


I cant Help it! my legion loves the new T2 hams! and my Raven loves the buffed torps! (even tho they still need a flight time fix), and my caracal oh sweet mother of jesus, i cannot help but droll once i think about a rapid fire caracal with precision missiles killing frigates like they were Unarmed badgers.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#7 - 2012-10-02 15:35:05 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
i dont understand why people is complaining so much about the missile changes when they are actually getting a net buff specially for PVP and only 1 of all the 8 missiles, got a nerf that achieves finally a decent balance compared to its size.

Also, correct me if right... but now a phoenix can fit tracking computers to effectively use Citadel missiles against sub capital ships?


Correct you if you're right?

Ok, I won't correct you, but only because you're wrong.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#8 - 2012-10-02 17:40:25 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
i dont understand why people is complaining so much about the missile changes when they are actually getting a net buff specially for PVP and only 1 of all the 8 missiles, got a nerf that achieves finally a decent balance compared to its size.

Also, correct me if right... but now a phoenix can fit tracking computers to effectively use Citadel missiles against sub capital ships?


Correct you if you're right?

Ok, I won't correct you, but only because you're wrong.


my bad, sorry... was sorta in something else, fixed. and aw too bad i wanted to pwn people with citadel missiles.
Kinet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-10-02 18:55:25 UTC
You need to look at other factors besides the missile change. Caldari are the missile race with many missile boats. Due to having the best long range ammo (HM) it was decided in an expansion (Castor or red moon) that they should also have the slowest ships so they can not dictate range. Now the ammo gets nerfed but the ships are still the slowest. Sure my ammo may hit as hard as minnie now (which is still debateable) but the minnie is so fast he will have control of the fight.

Did you also see the buff to the thorax? Extra mid slot, more speed and guns just got a sort buff. Are we replacing the Tengu with the Thorax now as the OP ship of choice?

I dont use missiles much but I dont feel the issue is with missiles but rather in the ships like the Drake and Tengu. Dont screw over the caracal and other missile boats because the Drake/Tengu is OP. I'm all for fixing the OP issue but I dont think a 20% damage and 25% range nerf to all missile boats is the right answer.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#10 - 2012-10-02 18:56:36 UTC
1/10 Troll on...
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#11 - 2012-10-02 18:57:53 UTC
Posting in Heavy missle thread #234817495813

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-10-02 19:02:11 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
Lord Ryan wrote:
Oh sweet another missile thread!


I cant Help it! my legion loves the new T2 hams! and my Raven loves the buffed torps! (even tho they still need a flight time fix), and my caracal oh sweet mother of jesus, i cannot help but droll once i think about a rapid fire caracal with precision missiles killing frigates like they were Unarmed badgers.


That caracal would be fitted with light launcher right?
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#13 - 2012-10-02 19:22:34 UTC
Kinet wrote:
Sure my ammo may hit as hard as minnie now (which is still debateable) but the minnie is so fast he will have control of the fight.


heavy missile on drake:

range: 81km
DPS: 218
range after nerf: 60ish km
DPS: 196

720mm artillery using on hurricane:

using nuclear ammo:

range: 48km + 44km
DPS: 105
DPS @ 70km: 52.5

using Titanium sabot:

range: 30km + 42km
DPS: 168
DPS @ 51km: 84

Your ammo will still hit much harder than a minnie. Actually, your precious missiles will hit 2.5x harder than minnie at ranges 50+km. You really gonna complain about this?

Let's not mention that both of the hurricanes bonuses are to DPS, where the drake still does tons more dps at range with 1 bonus to dps, and the other a tank bonus.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#14 - 2012-10-02 19:33:41 UTC
Pointing out the down sides isn't complaining. It's dismissed as such but that's more about forum warrior thing than discussions or complaining.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-10-02 19:38:28 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
i dont understand why people is complaining so much about the missile changes when they are actually getting a net buff specially for PVP and only 1 of all the 8 missiles, got a nerf that achieves finally a decent balance compared to its size.

Also, correct me if wrong... but now a phoenix can fit tracking computers to effectively use Citadel missiles against sub capital ships?


Ah, a question that invites logical fallacies, such as "they are just crying because" posts from various not so smart people.

I was opposed to the original form of the HML nerf (even if it was a buff to other missiles) because of the way it was to be done, and the why's. The original form of the nerf would have created HMLs that not too many people would use at all, to be replaced by Tracking enhanced cruise, light and heavy assault missiles. Replacing broken stuff is not a fix.

In the past, CCP has had a habit of using an axe where a scalpel would have been a better idea, what I call "Over-nerf", that they then either abandon trying to fix, or DO try to fix (something that should have never been broken) resulting in lost DEV time and CCP money, which all in all hurts the game..

What some of us suggested was (in all things, because EVE is a complex and interconnected game) a slower more thoughtful pace of changing things. Change the drake and the tengu, make slight modifications to HMLs and THEN see where you need to go from there, which simply increases the chances of getting the balance right the 1st time and takes into account that missiles are not guns.

Of course, the people blinded by their own selfish game needs, or those who like ANY change whether it's needed or not thinks advocating caution is somehow some sinister plot to stop change. It's not.

I'm all for good change and will adapt to whatever, but not stupid ill-conceived changes that hurt more than it helps. CCP seems to be listening and going more slowly with their tweaking of the game, and this should result in a better product for all (except the haters, and screw them).
John Caligan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-02 20:48:53 UTC
Whilst I do agree that the HMs needed a range reduction to keep them in line with other ships, (possibly even a 50% range reduction), I do not believe that the 20% damage nerf was needed. This hurts HM Battleships, HM Cruisers, and Feroxes as well as Drakes/Tengus.

The main reason I dislike it though, is because I'm relatively new to Battlecruisers. I just got my Drake, and all I have is a bunch of crappy Tech 1 gear, and not nearly enough ISK to upgrade to Tech 2 or high-end Tech 1. (My income is about 400K ISK a day)

So I hate this nerf because I'm an independant mission runner, barely scraping by in missions as is (I should not be having as much trouble as I am with NPC Angel Cartel Battleships), and now they give me a 20% nerf to deal with.
Deevel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-10-02 20:51:42 UTC
John Caligan wrote:
This hurts HM Battleships


UghUghUghUghUgh
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-10-02 21:10:08 UTC
And this all you noobies is where bitter vets come from
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-10-02 21:48:35 UTC
everytime i see one of these threads i giggle. When i started i trained missiles for pvp. And after i did i found out, at the time you could pick 2 of 3 things.

PvP
Solo
Caldari

Oh how the times have changed.

I has all the eve inactivity
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#20 - 2012-10-02 21:50:03 UTC
F1

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
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