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Will CCP opens SPs after patches ?
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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#101 - 2012-10-02 14:53:44 UTC
Cori Halcyon wrote:
For a minute there I genuinely thought you might have some kind of insight into the game I had missed.

Then I saw this.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14747145

and this

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14661734



Without viewing the links, let me guess...my Drake and CNR losses?

I'm not embarrassed about that at all. Those losses represent valuable Eve learning experiences, namely:

1. Don't shoot at someone stealing from your wrecks because they'll come back and WTFPWN you with a better ship

2. When your Lvl 4 Agent gives you a mission in LowSec then it's a really bad idea to accept it

Cool

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#102 - 2012-10-02 14:55:14 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Cori Halcyon wrote:
For a minute there I genuinely thought you might have some kind of insight into the game I had missed.

Then I saw this.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14747145

and this

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14661734



Without viewing the links, let me guess...my Drake and CNR losses?

I'm not embarrassed about that at all. Those losses represent valuable Eve learning experiences, namely:

1. Don't shoot at someone stealing from your wrecks because they'll come back and WTFPWN you with a better ship

2. When your Lvl 4 Agent gives you a mission in LowSec then it's a really bad idea to accept it

Cool


Oh, look, it is one of those self-entitled mission runners that believe the game should conform after them than the opposite.

Not really surprised about it but still.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#103 - 2012-10-02 14:56:04 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
And there's your fundamental problem with EVE.


The beauty of EVE's skill system is that, in all areas of EVE, newer players can catch up to or exceed the abilities of older players by specializing.

The ability of new players to catch up to older players is what keeps MMOs attracting new players. If you were able to predict the winner of a fight based on age, there'd be no point in starting as a new player.


That's life. If you can't beat a guy on your own then bring a friend and keep bringing more friends until you can.

A new player should never be able to compete with a more established player 1v1, but that's not to say they shouldn't beat that established player by using common sense.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#104 - 2012-10-02 14:56:53 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
My goal was to use heavy missiles one day. Now I can and they're...
...still worth using. CCP - stricken, not a contestant, Ryan 1.

Quote:
At least I still have my Cane I spent years maxing out, you know cause it was FOTM. Oh wait...
...it's still a good ship. Ryan 2, still no other contestant.

John Ratcliffe wrote:
Of course they are. SPs are the mechanism by which a player advances in the game. They are exactly the same as XP.
No. Not even close.

The classic game follows the pattern of:

Accumulate XP -> Reach specific number -> Gain level -> Gain level bonuses and point to put into abilities. Repeat until Max level, at which point you have a finite amount of bonuses and abilities.

In EVE, the pattern is:

Pick a skill -> Accumulate SP -> Reach a specific number -> Gain level -> Gain contextually limited bonuses and access to specific gear -> Decide whether next level is worth it (most likely not) -> Continue or pick a new skill. Repeat for 18 years.

Note two things: the abilities and bonuses are effectively infinite in EVE, but they are also extremely contextual. Instead of having a finite set of abilities that you might need to switch between (the remap you see in outdated game design), you have a semi-infinite set of combinations of skills in EVE, which come into use whenever they are needed. No remapping is needed because if you need something else, you either already have it or you can just train it and add it to your pool -- it will be activated when it's needed and you don't have to switch to it. There is no level cap; no fixed set of abilities; no fixed combinations; nothing that means you have to limit yourself to just [level -1] abilities picked from [max 3 of tier 1, max 4 of tier 2 ... max n-2 of tier n].

In EVE, your SP does not determine what "level" you're on or how strong you are or how far you've "advanced". They just measure time... and clone cost. If you have 200M SP (let's call it "level 20" because we're so used to think in the terms of outmoded XP-to-level mechanics), you will be utterly thrashed by someone who hasn't even reached "level 1" yet, because he put 2M SP into flying a really nasty frigate and you put everything into science and industry and the best you can fly is a tier-1 hauler.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#105 - 2012-10-02 15:00:39 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Oh, look, it is one of those self-entitled mission runners that believe the game should conform after them than the opposite.

Not really surprised about it but still.


I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion but you're wrong.

On a similar note, is this how you treat anyone that makes a perfectly valid suggestion you disagree with?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#106 - 2012-10-02 15:02:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
In EVE, your SP does not determine what "level" you're on or how strong you are or how far you've "advanced". They just measure time... and clone cost. If you have 200M SP (let's call it "level 20" because we're so used to think in the terms of outmoded XP-to-level mechanics), you will be utterly thrashed by someone who hasn't even reached "level 1" yet, because he put 2M SP into flying a really nasty frigate and you put everything into science and industry and the best you can fly is a tier-1 hauler.



That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#107 - 2012-10-02 15:02:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
John Ratcliffe wrote:
A new player should never be able to compete with a more established player 1v1, but that's not to say they shouldn't beat that established player by using common sense.
...and this just further proves that you don't quite understand EVE.

No. A new player should always be able to compete with a more established player 1v1, player-skill notwithstanding. This is a pretty difficult thing to create while still having some kind of skill progression system, but EVE tries and succeeds better than most. Removing this ability from the game does nothing but hurt it.

Quote:
That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.
No, you really wouldn't. Quite the opposite: if you don't do exactly that, you will never succeed at PvP. "The best possible skills" are a chimaera that only ever ensures that players never become good at what they want to do, and going for them often leaves you with far worse skills than you would otherwise have.
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-10-02 15:03:06 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Oh, look, it is one of those self-entitled mission runners that believe the game should conform after them than the opposite.

Not really surprised about it but still.


I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion but you're wrong.

On a similar note, is this how you treat anyone that makes a perfectly valid suggestion you disagree with?



But its not a valid suggestion, or not a workable one if you want to be polite....


Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#109 - 2012-10-02 15:04:52 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
In EVE, your SP does not determine what "level" you're on or how strong you are or how far you've "advanced". They just measure time... and clone cost. If you have 200M SP (let's call it "level 20" because we're so used to think in the terms of outmoded XP-to-level mechanics), you will be utterly thrashed by someone who hasn't even reached "level 1" yet, because he put 2M SP into flying a really nasty frigate and you put everything into science and industry and the best you can fly is a tier-1 hauler.



That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.

Confirming that newbies need to refrain from PvP for 6+ months to have "the best possible skills" before starting.

Right.

/facepalm

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#110 - 2012-10-02 15:10:26 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
In EVE, your SP does not determine what "level" you're on or how strong you are or how far you've "advanced". They just measure time... and clone cost. If you have 200M SP (let's call it "level 20" because we're so used to think in the terms of outmoded XP-to-level mechanics), you will be utterly thrashed by someone who hasn't even reached "level 1" yet, because he put 2M SP into flying a really nasty frigate and you put everything into science and industry and the best you can fly is a tier-1 hauler.



That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.

Confirming that newbies need to refrain from PvP for 6+ months to have "the best possible skills" before starting.

Right.

/facepalm

All you need to be sucessful at PVP is Falcon alt, Booster alt(s) and neutral logi alts. Cool

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#111 - 2012-10-02 15:10:30 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Confirming that newbies need to refrain from PvP for 6+ months to have "the best possible skills" before starting.

Right.

/facepalm


It's personal isn't it? I meant the best possible skills 'for them', which should have been obvious unless I am required to qualify every single post I make to the nth degree just to keep you happy P

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#112 - 2012-10-02 15:10:39 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
In EVE, your SP does not determine what "level" you're on or how strong you are or how far you've "advanced". They just measure time... and clone cost. If you have 200M SP (let's call it "level 20" because we're so used to think in the terms of outmoded XP-to-level mechanics), you will be utterly thrashed by someone who hasn't even reached "level 1" yet, because he put 2M SP into flying a really nasty frigate and you put everything into science and industry and the best you can fly is a tier-1 hauler.



That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.


So waht your saying is that you need leet marauder skills before you fly a really nasty frigate in PVP, unless you are a tard?

please explain
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#113 - 2012-10-02 15:12:09 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
So waht your saying is that you need leet marauder skills before you fly a really nasty frigate in PVP, unless you are a tard?

please explain


Read up.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Ginger Barbarella
#114 - 2012-10-02 15:13:32 UTC
960ApofiS069 wrote:
i see ccp have balls to nerf stuff hard so am asking if ccp have balls also to give players a choice after applying new patch and open players assigned skill points in skills that will get affected by patch.


Um, wut?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#115 - 2012-10-02 15:13:34 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Confirming that newbies need to refrain from PvP for 6+ months to have "the best possible skills" before starting.

Right.

/facepalm


It's personal isn't it? I meant the best possible skills 'for them', which should have been obvious unless I am required to qualify every single post I make to the nth degree just to keep you happy P

Considering this thread has turned into "newbies shouldn't be able to match vets", an unqualified statement like yours may quite easily be taken the wrong way. P

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#116 - 2012-10-02 15:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Loving those faction fit missile spewers, a fine example of how many really expensive mods you can fit on a ship and still suck, and you forgot the prop mod. Loot pinatas FTW
I'm flying a Drake for lvl 4's until caldari cruiser 5 finishes and I don't have to fit anywhere near that amount of shield mods, let alone shiny ones that push the estimated loss to 2 billion isk. The HML changes haven't discouraged me from the Tengu, because HAMs are also in the queue so I get some versatility.

Anyways back on topic

Nope

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#117 - 2012-10-02 16:09:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Loving those faction fit missile spewers, a fine example of how many really expensive mods you can fit on a ship and still suck, and you forgot the prop mod. Loot pinatas FTW
I'm flying a Drake for lvl 4's until caldari cruiser 5 finishes and I don't have to fit anywhere near that amount of shield mods, let alone shiny ones that push the estimated loss to 2 billion isk. The HML changes haven't discouraged me from the Tengu, because HAMs are also in the queue so I get some versatility.

Anyways back on topic

Nope


Obvious clueless troll spouting sh*t is obvious.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-10-02 16:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Ferrr
960ApofiS069 wrote:
Garbage.



Well no wonder Goons wiped the floor with AAA if this is the quality of their recruits.

John Ratcliffe wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Loving those faction fit missile spewers, a fine example of how many really expensive mods you can fit on a ship and still suck, and you forgot the prop mod. Loot pinatas FTW
I'm flying a Drake for lvl 4's until caldari cruiser 5 finishes and I don't have to fit anywhere near that amount of shield mods, let alone shiny ones that push the estimated loss to 2 billion isk. The HML changes haven't discouraged me from the Tengu, because HAMs are also in the queue so I get some versatility.

Anyways back on topic

Nope


Obvious clueless troll spouting sh*t is obvious.


Are you talking about yourself there Mr. Ratcliffe? Because Jonah is 100% right. The upcoming missle buff isn't going to hurt the tengu at all. The new FotM will be HAM Tengus, with slightly less range and a lot more DPS. Being able to increase the range the HAMS can hit will make them very viable as a mid-long range weapon.

John with your inability to adapt one cannot help but wonder, why EVE? There are a million other MMOs out there (some even SciFi) that are much easier, don't require as much thought, or require one to adapt. Why not go play one of those? Not everyone wants (or is able) to use their brain to play a game, and thats okay, EVE isn't for everyone. If you cannot adapt to a change that you get a 4-6months warning that it is coming, well I say this with as much respect as possible, EVE is not for you. In EVE we adapt or die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2012-10-02 16:20:06 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:

That's a really bad example. You'd have to be a complete tard to PVP without the best possible skills.


This right here shows how little you know.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#120 - 2012-10-02 16:24:20 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Are you talking about yourself there Mr. Ratcliffe? Because Jonah is 100% right. The upcoming missle buff isn't going to hurt the tengu at all. The new FotM will be HAM Tengus, with slightly less range and a lot more DPS. Being able to increase the range the HAMS can hit will make them very viable as a mid-long range weapon.


No.

I was talking about the poster and his comments on my hull fit module choice. I have no interest in his views on the Tengu and forthcoming missile changes.

Quote:
John with your inability to adapt one cannot help but wonder, why EVE? There are a million other MMOs out there (some even SciFi) that are much easier, don't require as much thought, or require one to adapt. Why not go play one of those? Not everyone wants (or is able) to use their brain to play a game, and thats okay, EVE isn't for everyone. If you cannot adapt to a change that you get a 4-6months warning that it is coming, well I say this with as much respect as possible, EVE is not for you. In EVE we adapt or die.


How have you come to the conclusion I'm unable to adapt? You've no idea what skills I've trained/am training, what hulls I own or plan to buy. Please don't over-reach.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose