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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4001 - 2012-10-02 13:22:10 UTC
Joyana Dakota wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Couldn't get out of range?

Even with a 20% hit and no rigs a drake would shoot 64km, and I doubt very highly you got away with a 10 point hit. Bombers have a BIG signature for fig to start with, and on top of that your veloicity means you have a micro warp. So from a 1000mm sig that bomber gets basically THREE vollied , even faster becasue to stay in point range you are only doing about 65% of your top speed in a 7500m orbit.

HMLs currently lose 12dps per launcher at that speed.

Sow me another tale please, I'll post the missile calulator for you if you want.


Right now yes... not after the nerf... jeeeez

and I only have an after burner fitted... not a MWD


The signature and velocities aren't chainging.

I just simulated it, with max speed me in a drake shooting my alt in a hound STILL does 150dps, after a 10% damage reduction OH NOES the drake only does 135DPS.

More then enough to chase off a torp bomber, drones or no.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4002 - 2012-10-02 13:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Silk daShocka wrote:
So I guess us hurricane pilots should flood this thread with QQ not enough pewpew complaints to have the cane nerf lessened.



While I kind of cry for my armor cane, I never really fly them anymore anyway (for all I have like 3 of them) so meh. Its not a big deal.

I spend a LOT more time in Tier 3s these days.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4003 - 2012-10-02 13:29:26 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Joyana Dakota wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Couldn't get out of range?

Even with a 20% hit and no rigs a drake would shoot 64km, and I doubt very highly you got away with a 10 point hit. Bombers have a BIG signature for fig to start with, and on top of that your veloicity means you have a micro warp. So from a 1000mm sig that bomber gets basically THREE vollied , even faster becasue to stay in point range you are only doing about 65% of your top speed in a 7500m orbit.

HMLs currently lose 12dps per launcher at that speed.

Sow me another tale please, I'll post the missile calulator for you if you want.


Right now yes... not after the nerf... jeeeez

and I only have an after burner fitted... not a MWD


The signature and velocities aren't chainging.

I just simulated it, with max speed me in a drake shooting my alt in a hound STILL does 150dps, after a 10% damage reduction OH NOES the drake only does 135DPS.

More then enough to chase off a torp bomber, drones or no.


except it won't be 135 but more like ~70 after the explosion nerfs.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4004 - 2012-10-02 13:32:56 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
AF going under the guns of larger ship is not a problem of the drake only, every cruisers and above live under this threat. How is this a problem ?

other cruisers have the advantage of hitting stuff for full damage when it's not under their guns. they also have falloff. opst nerf, heavy missiles will hit frigates like a wet noodle, no matter how good a pilot you are.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvfhVXbMgc8
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4005 - 2012-10-02 13:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Daniel Plain wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Joyana Dakota wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Couldn't get out of range?

Even with a 20% hit and no rigs a drake would shoot 64km, and I doubt very highly you got away with a 10 point hit. Bombers have a BIG signature for fig to start with, and on top of that your veloicity means you have a micro warp. So from a 1000mm sig that bomber gets basically THREE vollied , even faster becasue to stay in point range you are only doing about 65% of your top speed in a 7500m orbit.

HMLs currently lose 12dps per launcher at that speed.

Sow me another tale please, I'll post the missile calulator for you if you want.


Right now yes... not after the nerf... jeeeez

and I only have an after burner fitted... not a MWD


The signature and velocities aren't chainging.

I just simulated it, with max speed me in a drake shooting my alt in a hound STILL does 150dps, after a 10% damage reduction OH NOES the drake only does 135DPS.

More then enough to chase off a torp bomber, drones or no.


except it won't be 135 but more like ~70 after the explosion nerfs.


Exposion radius is going to 140.....a MWD bomber has a 245m sig radius (if you have a tank)....aka no penalty there you are only concrened with velocity and that isn't changing.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#4006 - 2012-10-02 13:40:31 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
So I guess us hurricane pilots should flood this thread with QQ not enough pewpew complaints to have the cane nerf lessened.


really isnt a big deal. all the nerf really does is preventing you from fitting 2 medium neuts while stille having full set of biggest weapons and decent tank. i mean, once you had all support skills on lvl5 there was absolutely no need to think about your fitting. there was more then enough fitting to go around ^^


Daniel Plain wrote:

except it won't be 135 but more like ~70 after the explosion nerfs.


which is in the regime of what a light missile frig like breacher would inflinct - after the big frig buff.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4007 - 2012-10-02 13:53:48 UTC
Your missiles skills will be well invested for the futur HAM... There is not only HML which use missiles...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4008 - 2012-10-02 13:54:32 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Your missiles skills will be well invested for the futur HAM... There is not only HML which use missiles...


*boggles* Lol
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4009 - 2012-10-02 14:01:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
Joyana Dakota wrote:
If you start a Caldari character after the nerf hits you're gonna find yourself stuck using Railguns because the missile ships won't be useful until you can fly a Raven, who's gonna sit on their asses training for this and use Railguns in the meantime. Railguns are ****, even after CCP fixed this.

A while back they were promoting in high bright colors that Caldari was the race for missiles again and that they were gonna bring back the flare in using them.

I haven't used Rails since I switched from a Ferox to a Drake and then to a Tengu... I'm not always using my Tengu because in Wormholes it's sometimes risky putting an expensive ship on the field.

This nerf hits an entire tree of character growth. From the Caracal -> Drake -> Tengu... what comes next ? If you're forced to use Railguns, forget training for a Raven because you're forced to spend all your time training Railgun skills... I don't see the logic in this, unless the goal is to remove Caldari from the game entirely.

Caldari will become useful again after you've trained up for a Raven, but who's gonna sit in station for 6 months until they have the right skills to finally fly one... You still have to train up all the missile support skills, which are completely useless for the other ships after the nerf.

An entire tree of training and growing into new ships is going to be useless. The natural stepping stone of growing into a Cruiser, then a Battlecruiser and the into a T3 Cruiser is gonna disappear... Unless you fancy flying a Railgun Tengu.


you're over reacting.

These changes do the following:

1) Buff rockets, with missile precision (not that rockets did bad in the first place, and might become a little to much now)
2) Buff light missiles with PG and CPU reduction, explosion radius reduction (and made a Destroyer platform with it, than will be scary as it is now)
3) Buff Heavy Assault missiles with PG reduction, and precision (those will fire at frigates with the radius HM do now)
4) Buff Cruise T2 missiles (remove ship penalties Speed and Signature, Damage buf, explosion radius reduction)
5) T2 Torpedo ship penalties removed.
6) T2 light missiles got a buff, damage explosion velocity, and radius
7) T2 Heavy missiles, don't have ship penalties anymore.
8) Missiles get faster (harder to out run)


Nerfs/Ballence

1) T2 Range and Explosion Radius Fury
2) Heavy missiles Damage, Range, Explosion Radius.


That doesn't sound to hard does it, and gives good options for the Caracal Drake and Tengu.

Because of the removal of ship penalties you need less tank on your Drake that would give you room for a TP

Or switch to Heavy assaults and use a range rig, there explosion radius will be what the HM Explosion radius was.


Enough options if you ask me, and honestly more a buff than a nerf, only and only Heavy missiles at that.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4010 - 2012-10-02 14:11:17 UTC
shhhhh

The sky is falling remember.
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#4011 - 2012-10-02 14:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Operative X10-4
I agree with the missiles changes, as a long range weapon the heavy missiles have a dps compared to shot range ones, but it's not all about numbers... let me say:

Long range missiles should be speed buffed A LOT, not only 14% or someting like that, it should be more like 100%, so that way will be viable to apply damage at long range, missiles take too long traveling to the target and in general the target can warp away before the 1st volley lands.

Between 2 equivalent ships the one who starts aplying damage first wins, so turrets>missiles at this point. But heavy missile can put up with that because: (ok.. it takes time to hit the target) but in general it strikes harder than other snipers weapons.

Long range missiles (heavy lauchers) are viable right now just because they strike like a short range weapon, so this way it can put up with the delay to start aplying damage problem.

You can debuff the damage but you have to really buf the speed.

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4012 - 2012-10-02 14:13:07 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:


Caldari will become useful again after you've trained up for a Raven, but who's gonna sit in station for 6 months until they have the right skills to finally fly one... You still have to train up all the missile support skills, which are completely useless for the other ships after the nerf.


Starting from scratch it doesn't take NEAR that long to get torps or cruise up to T2 with level 4 supports, more like 6 weeks.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4013 - 2012-10-02 14:23:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
Onictus wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:


Caldari will become useful again after you've trained up for a Raven, but who's gonna sit in station for 6 months until they have the right skills to finally fly one... You still have to train up all the missile support skills, which are completely useless for the other ships after the nerf.


Starting from scratch it doesn't take NEAR that long to get torps or cruise up to T2 with level 4 supports, more like 6 weeks.



Sorry that part wasn't mine, It's part of Dakota's mail I was disagreeing with, made some error wit copy pasting, due to long composing time of mail, removed it in my post
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#4014 - 2012-10-02 14:58:42 UTC
More sensible starting points, good stuff.



HOWEVER....am I reading the fury cruise changes right? Because if I am...holy crap....rigor/TP toting missile boats are going to start ripping missions apart. DPS increase, explosion radius decrease...so more 'paper' damage AND more gets applied?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#4015 - 2012-10-02 15:37:34 UTC
Marvel as Fozzie wades through a sea of nerds, grunting mightily as his gigantic Nerdslayer battleaxe demolishes argument after argument, his muscles rippling with effort, and covered in a sheen of sweat.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4016 - 2012-10-02 15:41:08 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Joyana Dakota wrote:
In my opinion the nerfing is a bit toooo much. The nerf hits one area way too hard which makes flying a Drake pretty much useless in Wormholes / missions and what ever else the Drake is used for next to PvP.

It's too much... Take another look CCP...


Drake in level 4s... yeah.

Any T1 BS is faster in level 4s compared to Drake.


Accept the cruise raven. That thing has crap for damage application.
Signal11th
#4017 - 2012-10-02 15:48:02 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Marvel as Fozzie wades through a sea of nerds, grunting mightily as his gigantic Nerdslayer battleaxe demolishes argument after argument, his muscles rippling with effort, and covered in a sheen of sweat.



You have something on your chin I think Blink

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#4018 - 2012-10-02 15:50:22 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Marvel as Fozzie wades through a sea of nerds, grunting mightily as his gigantic Nerdslayer battleaxe demolishes argument after argument, his muscles rippling with effort, and covered in a sheen of sweat.



You have something on your chin I think Blink



Correct, its called a beard, you'll understand one day when you're a man...one day

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Reticle
Sight Picture
#4019 - 2012-10-02 15:55:13 UTC
All I know is, this change makes missioning in a Tengu take a whole lot longer. Congratulations on making a crappy task like EVE missioning so much more crappier. The Macheriel crowd was neck and neck with the Tengu crowd for efficiency. Now it will be miles ahead, deal instant damage, and have all the benefits of being able to field a full complement of drones, which the typical mission tengu was not.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sick and tired of CCP forcing us to make choices and plans a year or more in advance, then changing all the rules to make those choices irrelevant and wasteful. I care less about specific buffs/nerfs than i do about the wasted time, effort, and planning.
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4020 - 2012-10-02 16:12:05 UTC
my tracking disruptors will patiently await the day they mess with the missile boats.

Now when you go back an look at them if you really want them to be universally useful EWAR make them effect remote effect ranges! TwistedPirateWhat?