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Will CCP opens SPs after patches ?
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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#41 - 2012-10-02 12:43:04 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Want to try again?


No. Arguing my views with non-supportive members of the player base will simply be a waste of energy. Hopefully someone from CCP will read my comments and act upon them. Obviously I won't hold my breath.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-10-02 12:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rats
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
No. CCP wants you to stick to your character choice(s) in the game and I commend them for that.

If a mechanic had been implemented in the game that let you reset your skill points to spend them elsewhere, the whole notion of experimenting and trying stuff would be completely pointless.

You could argue that you should have the freedom to play around with your character without any risk to it but I disagree and I think believe it is better if you stick to a certain path, are forced to work around with what you got because with a reset SP mechanic, you end up with a nod to the "flavor of the month" instead of having a cool and unique character.


I disagree. Were that so then they wouldn't allow Attribute remaps either, yet they do. So if they are prepared to go that far, then perhaps they might consider going further.



If they did this then anyone who has ever been touched by a game change could ask to free up there SP. Its not practical and would undermine the whole skills tree as everyone would remap there skills to the latest flavour of the month, which would then be seen as over powered (and boring to be honest), get nerfed then everyone would switch to the new flavor, Eve skills are about long term direction not short term fix.

My main is primarily missiles and to be honest the change isn't that bad..


Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Pipa Porto
#43 - 2012-10-02 12:45:44 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
CCP Soundwave says go play a game you like better (like DAoC) if you fundamentally don't like EVE. The fact that your skill queue represents a real choice with consequences is fundamental to the game.


I fundamentally do like Eve, I just feel that certain aspects could be improved to the benefit of all and detriment of no-one.


Allowing skill remaps would kill the character bazzar, would make it impossible for newer players to catch up to older players, and would remove the consequences from your choice of training plan.

Attributes would have no meaning, nor would different attribute implants.

And all because you're too lazy to plan ahead.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2012-10-02 12:46:12 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Want to try again?


No. Arguing my beliefs with non-supportive members of the player base will simply be a waste of energy. Hopefully someone from CCP will read my comments and act upon them. Obviously I won't hold my breath.


But count your blessings and call yourself lucky that you have so many games to choose from where you can respec at any time and for as many times as you want it. Just not this game lulz.

GTFO to WoW maybe?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#45 - 2012-10-02 12:57:35 UTC
Rats wrote:


If they did this then anyone who has ever been touched by a game change could ask to free up there SP. Its not practical and would undermine the whole skills tree as everyone would remap there skills to the latest flavour of the month, which would then be seen as over powered (and boring to be honest), get nerfed then everyone would switch to the new flavor, Eve skills are about long term direction not short term fix.

My main is primarily missiles and to be honest the change isn't that bad..


Tal


How isn't it practical? It's an almost irrelevant coding fix. What's wrong with being able to avoid a nerf? I really don't see the issue with allowing players to respec to more useful skill lines - what's wrong with being flavour of the Month?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#46 - 2012-10-02 12:58:15 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
GTFO to WoW maybe?


Grow up maybe?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#47 - 2012-10-02 12:59:38 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
This might be a good idea afterall.

CCP could just let the easy road players free up their SP off heavy missiles after they are tweaked, then observe where these players put their SP. Then CCP can nerf that too.

That's pretty much what they do anyways.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#48 - 2012-10-02 13:01:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
IAllowing skill remaps would kill the character bazzar, would make it impossible for newer players to catch up to older players, and would remove the consequences from your choice of training plan.

Attributes would have no meaning, nor would different attribute implants.

And all because you're too lazy to plan ahead.


How would it make it impossible for newer players to catch up? If anything, it will help players with less SP by allowing them to dynamically adjust their time investment as needed.

I really don't understand the opposition - there's nothing to be gained by burying your heads in the sand.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#49 - 2012-10-02 13:04:33 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
I really don't understand the opposition

That's the problem.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-10-02 13:05:29 UTC
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
Oh wow thread # 10,666 from a nerd rager who has more tears then a 2 year old who had their lolli pop taken away.


Now wait just a minute... NO ONE gets my lollipop...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2012-10-02 13:09:49 UTC
You already made your choice when you chased the FOTM.
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#52 - 2012-10-02 13:12:21 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Oh my freaking eyes!
Check the EULA (or whatever sacred parchment clowns here always link to).

CCP can pull the rug from under your SP at any time and you just have to suck it up.


Who reads the EULA really when starting to play a game? Its like saying hey read ALL the terms and conditions when you sign up to a contract. You just dont.


(Oh, I so want to be there when you don't read the mortgage contract and later find out the interest rate is 75%.)

Regardless of whether you read it or not, if you sign the contract, you agreed to whatever it said.

Case in point: I was working for a call-center several years ago, and a young woman calls in to get her phone replaced. About three sentences into the contract, she interrupts and says, 'Whatever you're saying, I agree to all of it -- just give me the phone'.

I stopped reading at that point, and noted in her file that she verbally agreed to uphold any and all contract terms. I even quoted what she'd said, to make sure it was clear. She hadn't listened to the terms, but for legal purposes, she had agreed to them regardless of what they might be.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-10-02 13:14:38 UTC
/me sets skill queue for Basket Weaving V...

Eventually, if you play long enough, you will reach a point where you wonder what to train to keep the ticks rolling instead of the desires to have a particular skill yesterday.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2012-10-02 13:17:07 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
GTFO to WoW maybe?


Grow up maybe?


Indeed. Crying over how there is no respec mechanic in EVE is rather childish.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Pipa Porto
#55 - 2012-10-02 13:19:49 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
IAllowing skill remaps would kill the character bazzar, would make it impossible for newer players to catch up to older players, and would remove the consequences from your choice of training plan.

Attributes would have no meaning, nor would different attribute implants.

And all because you're too lazy to plan ahead.


How would it make it impossible for newer players to catch up? If anything, it will help players with less SP by allowing them to dynamically adjust their time investment as needed.

I really don't understand the opposition - there's nothing to be gained by burying your heads in the sand.


Nope. Making raw SP rather than skills matter harms new players, since that's something they don't have.

If I have 50m SP and it's not invested in Frigates, I'll fly a Frigate worse than a newer player with 10m SP invested in Frigates.

If I can dynamically adjust my training, I will always have more SP towards my ship than that 10m SP newer player, so long as more than 10m SP can be applied to that ship (that's most ships, including frigates).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#56 - 2012-10-02 13:21:57 UTC
First they came for the nanos,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a nanoer.

Then they came for the damps,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a damper,

Then they came for the drams ,
and I didn't speak out because drams were OP anyway.

Then they came for my HMLs,
and there was no one left to speak out for me, because skilling a week for HAMs was apparenty too fking difficult.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2012-10-02 13:29:01 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
You just perfectly illustrated the rigid thinking I describe. No-one would force you to use a respec system were it to be implemented; yet because you disagree then you want to deny everyone the opportunity.
No, what you're illustrating is the rigid thinking of "don't use it if you don't like it", believing that not liking it is the problem. In fact, it's the exact opposite: it's something that you would have to be apocalyptically stupid not to use because there is no way to dislike the effects. You lack the imagination to see what such a system would mean and how it would be (ab)used.

Quote:
I don't see how it could be anything other than positive.
To help you, I'll use the standard copypasta:

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

Oh, and there are pretty much no positive effects to counter all those issues. It doesn't solve a single problem.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#58 - 2012-10-02 13:29:06 UTC
Funny thing, Retribution is making me want to spend more SP in missiles. Feck HML it's HAM(mer) time. And rockets are pretty sweet too.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#59 - 2012-10-02 13:32:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
You just perfectly illustrated the rigid thinking I describe. No-one would force you to use a respec system were it to be implemented; yet because you disagree then you want to deny everyone the opportunity.
No, what you're illustrating is the rigid thinking of "don't use it if you don't like it", believing that not liking it is the problem. In fact, it's the exact opposite: it's something that you would have to be apocalyptically stupid not to use because there is no way to dislike the effects. You lack the imagination to see what such a system would mean and how it would be (ab)used.

Quote:
I don't see how it could be anything other than positive.
To help you, I'll use the standard copypasta:

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

Oh, and there are pretty much no positive effects to counter all those issues. It doesn't solve a single problem.

wat

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#60 - 2012-10-02 13:39:04 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Indeed. Crying over how there is no respec mechanic in EVE is rather childish.


I'm not crying. It's a suggestion not a moan. I won't stop playing if it isn't implemented, it just seems like an obvious addition to me.

You could stop crying though - some of you really don't like change do you?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose