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Retribution's New Bounty System

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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#121 - 2012-10-02 08:44:51 UTC
Asura Kai wrote:
Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:

1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.

2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.

With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.

Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.



All I have to say is this.

__________________________________________________________
Paid for by the Committee for Responsible Posting

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#122 - 2012-10-02 08:57:18 UTC
Quote:
How so? It's not like criminal organisations don't put prices on people's heads all the time, especially if they're annoying do-gooders who interfere with their business…


Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx.

Quote:
Are corp thieves criminals?


My favorite kind.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#123 - 2012-10-02 09:02:55 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.
What if you happen to use the word "loose" in place of "lose" all the time in your posts? Should I not have the right to exact retribution upon you?



Right? Nay, duty!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#124 - 2012-10-02 09:03:28 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
How so? It's not like criminal organisations don't put prices on people's heads all the time, especially if they're annoying do-gooders who interfere with their business…


Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx.

Quote:
Are corp thieves criminals?


My favorite kind.


So are you in favour of being able to put bounties on them or not?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#125 - 2012-10-02 09:06:04 UTC
I want bounties on all the stuffs.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#126 - 2012-10-02 09:10:48 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx.
“Unless”? It's already how it works. You'll be a wanted criminal when you try to collect the bounty, unless you have somehow already managed to obtain the legal right to shoot him.
Herr Hammer Draken
#127 - 2012-10-02 09:17:58 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.

If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK.


If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere.

What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.


I do agree that everyone needs to know who owns your kill right. The game should notify you when a kill right is transfered to a new owner.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#128 - 2012-10-02 09:30:52 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.

If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK.


If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere..


the same situational awareness that Freighter pilots have to us when they're not alerted to a planned gank?

Pipa Porto wrote:


What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.


The miner has already subsumed their risk into a ship loss that has already happened. In other words, he takes exactly the same risk as a suicide ganker; parlaying a definite ship loss into a possible kill.


Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you're too scared of reprisal to suicide gank, then don't do it.

hth

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#129 - 2012-10-02 09:32:29 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.

If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK.


If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere.

What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.


I do agree that everyone needs to know who owns your kill right. The game should notify you when a kill right is transfered to a new owner.




Should "the game" notify you when there are 12 guys in gank-fit tornados on the other side of a gate, or 4 dudes in catalysts warping to your belt?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#130 - 2012-10-02 09:35:24 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Asura Kai wrote:
Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:

1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.

2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.

With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.

Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.



All I have to say is this.

__________________________________________________________
Paid for by the Committee for Responsible Posting


Yes because my posting alt is Pablo ******* Escobar.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Herr Hammer Draken
#131 - 2012-10-02 09:58:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.

If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK.


If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere.

What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.


I do agree that everyone needs to know who owns your kill right. The game should notify you when a kill right is transfered to a new owner.




Should "the game" notify you when there are 12 guys in gank-fit tornados on the other side of a gate, or 4 dudes in catalysts warping to your belt?


In meaningful ways this info is knowable and discernable in game already. But what if one of those 4 dudes in a cat owns kill rights on another of those dudes in that same cat group? That is unknowable. Even if you have a scout. I understand where you are coming from and you want to shift the problem the other way as some sort of revenge. That is not the right thing to do however.

Again a scout can tell you when this gate camp is set up. A scout can tell you when 4 cats in gank fit come through the gate into a system. But a scout can not tell you when someone else owns your kill rights. That is unknowable at any level in game.
And it should be at some level discernable at the very least.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#132 - 2012-10-02 10:07:37 UTC
I'm saying that people who inflict random violence on others in hi-sec for fun and profit should scarcely complain when the possibility now applies to them. And it's not like pirates are flying about in unarmed industrials, either. They're being faced with the prospect of a single opponent in a pvP ship just like them. Why so serious?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pipa Porto
#133 - 2012-10-02 10:21:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
the same situational awareness that Freighter pilots have to us when they're not alerted to a planned gank?


Their scouts can tell what's on the other side of the gate, and can look for gank fleets. They know what their cargo is worth. They know what system they're in.

Not knowing when


Quote:
The miner has already subsumed their risk into a ship loss that has already happened. In other words, he takes exactly the same risk as a suicide ganker; parlaying a definite ship loss into a possible kill.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you're too scared of reprisal to suicide gank, then don't do it.

hth


Except that trade has already happened. The ship that ganked the miner has already died. As a bonus, CONCORD allows them to choose to seek revenge without consequence. Why should they get that revenge without the effort? Why should the person buying the killright get to gank someone in HS without consequence? HS is the land where aggression costs the aggressor something (excepting consensual engagements, ofc). How do transferable killrights cost the miner anything and how do they cost the buyer anything?

At the moment, the Miner has to risk time and effort in an attempt to find and kill their ganker. If they can transfer the killright, they no longer do. At the moment, someone uninvolved third party (alt or not, that's what they are) wanting to avenge a gank victim has to gank or wardec their target, costing them a ship (or allowing the ganker to shoot back). If they can buy killrights, they incur no risk whatsoever because their target cannot shoot back effectively, and their targets friends cannot shoot back at all (note this important difference compared to a suicide gank).

If the person who's killright is being sold is notified of the sale and allowed to shoot at the current (non-original) holder of the killright, it turns them into one man, inescapable wardecs. Which is pretty cool.

Why are you so scared of people knowing you're hunting them and being able to do something about it?

By the way, in addition to suicide ganks, killrights cover any Lowsec kill where the victim doesn't get a shot off. Why does Lowsec need more nerfs?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#134 - 2012-10-02 10:24:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'm saying that people who inflict random violence on others in hi-sec for fun and profit should scarcely complain when the possibility now applies to them. And it's not like pirates are flying about in unarmed industrials, either. They're being faced with the prospect of a single opponent in a pvP ship just like them. Why so serious?


And that possibility already exists. Grab your tornado (or BB, or Falcon) and gank (or Jam) people who've gone GCC. You'll kill them and/or spoil their gank

No, they're not. The prospect is of a single or multiple opponents who are game mechanically guaranteed the element of surprise and assured of a superior ship, while also being assured that their targets cannot be effectively aided.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#135 - 2012-10-02 10:25:06 UTC
Paging Matrix Skye to this thread...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-10-02 10:37:33 UTC
oddly enough it sounds exactly like the bounty system i suggested they use years ago O_o

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Herr Hammer Draken
#137 - 2012-10-02 10:50:48 UTC
I just had some odd thoughts kinda bored. It could be cool if these kill rights were an item like a data chip that exsisted in dust.
A black market run in dust, the buyers would be eve players but the actual data chip would move through dust from seller to buyer and possibly intercepted enroute. Recovered perhaps (by a contract from the ganker pilot who the kill rights are for) as he hires a dust player to recover the data chip for him. So you could maybe get your own kill rights back.

Money flows to and from eve and dust. Gives missions in dust a connection and a reason why they do what they do to eve.
A whole lot more would need to be done to flesh this all out this is just a rough draft.
Dust has to stand up first. Obviously. Maybe more things can be found to trade on a black market like this through dust?
Could be fun?!

Then maybe even a tracker (dust player) could be hired to find out who bought your kill rights (data chip) and this is how you would find out who owns your kill rights? Maybe I am giving dust more credit than what that game is designed to do? I do not know the limits of dust.

Connections like this would be interesting between dust and eve I think if it is possible?

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#138 - 2012-10-02 10:56:40 UTC
ugh zug wrote:
oddly enough it sounds exactly like the bounty system i suggested they use years ago O_o



A lot of people have made similar suggestions, including yours truly.

If CCP deliver the proposed system, then I'll be very happy indeed. One of the first things I asked about when my friend was trying to persuaude me to start playing EVE was "Can I be a bounty-hunter?".

His answer made me Sad

(The other thing I asked about was Smuggling, but hey, what's another 6 years?)


Honestly though, the wailing and gnashing about the prospect of a massive boost to solo PvP in hi-sec is just.. :derp: This will be one of the best things to happen to hi-sec in years. Not least because if it provides a player mechanism to effectively retaliate vs criminal acts, then it may hopefully alleiviate the continual calls for more and more CONCORD buffs. If bounty hunting takes off, it might even pave the way towards a reduction in the NPC presence.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hrothgar Nilsson
#139 - 2012-10-02 11:21:28 UTC
Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#140 - 2012-10-02 12:12:21 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?




Because transferrable killrights are what make bounty-hunting a viable profession.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016