Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Not replying to any specific post here, but I'd like to impart an amusing sight I witnessed last night.

I was sitting on a gate last night admiring the view and a obelisk came through. Followed by about 5 logis. The obelisk dropped cloak to warp, the logis put all their RR on it, and a corpmate webbed it into warp.

Obviously, these guys were executing a decently-concieved plan to ensure their Obi's survivability in light of all the recent pipe ganking. That right there is the EVE way.

So if you're sitting here whining why you can't be assured that you'll be able to haul whatever you want anywhere with impunity, you should consider spending less time forum-whining and more time being tactically creative.

We got that. We're picking apart the premise of the idea though (see: the reason the OP presented the idea). It's flawed and all the OP seems to be doing is putting his/her fingers in his/her ears and saying "lalalalala" when many people offer many, many, many current counters to "the problem."


There are currently grumblings that "power projection" is too easy and should be whacked hard by the nerf-bat. This idea would run counter to that by making logistics that much safer and easier.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm sure quite a few people would enjoy the idea of a battleship carrying ship for high-sec... at first. But I'm also equally certain that peoples' minds would quickly change when large entities like TEST, CFC, and "griefer alliances" begin to take advantage of and abuse those same logistical and tactical abilities.


So basically... because people decide to pimp out their ships with expensive mods and rigs (making them not want to repackage their ship)... the game should change certain mechanics to make moving such large expensive things that much easier and that much safer?
Self-centered much?


Which then raises the bar for what corps need to be "effective" and creates a wider gap between older, more wealthy players/corps and younger, poorer players/corps. Malcanis' Law.

Yes. More people than a node can handle.

No, they really shouldn't. Supers should be deathly afraid of subcaps since their main goal is to be the same kind of threat to normal caps. This would require them to come with their own subcap escort to fend off that threat.

Welcome to EVE. Bigger is not better. Bigger is, in fact, just bigger and remains quite vulnerable to those smaller things.

You got that part backwards. Bumping doesn't work because the webbing trick ensures that you're insta-aligned — there's no time for him to bump you. No matter how much you wish that it didn't, webbing works. All of the tactics work. That's why they have come about throughout the years. You just refuse to use them.

No, there really isn't, and yes we can. Highsec logistics are trivial as it is, even when it comes to moving ships, and freighters are part of what makes it so. If all you want is a freighter that can move assembled ships, then realise that this will be no safer than doing so with the existing freighter are — if anything, it will mean you incur bigger losses when you get ganked (which you will be because you refuse to employ the myriad of safety tactics that are available to you).

Ok. So how do you propose to make supers be no threat to battleships?

Let me finish writing up my thoughts and I'll link you to the idea once its posted.

You've been told wrong then. If done correctly it can be more or less instant (under 5 seconds).

Let me brush you up on the mechanics.
When you start warp from a dead stop you have no "front" or "back" to you ship. The server merely sees the ship as a "sphere."
Once you initiate warp, your ship's trajectory is "in line" with whatever you wish to warp to (any "turning" you see your ship doing is simply graphics)... all your ship needs to do it reach 75% max velocity.

Here's where the magic happens... when you web a ship you merely reduce the max velocity but not the velocity the ship has gained.
In other words... you are literally "pushing" the max velocity down to where it is within 25% of the gained velocity. Presto! Instawarp to the next gate/station/celestial.


I tested this with a friend's freighter. A frigate fitted with a MWD barely did anything and only prolonged a regular warp by a few seconds.
Now... if you're talking about a cruiser or a battlecruiser doing the bumping... unless it is already almost on top of the freighter it won't have enough time to stop the "web-instawarp" trick.

…and they will have even less chance to reach the freighter in time if it's being web-warped.

…which is 4 seconds more than it has at its disposal to reach the target. It will have travelled less than 2km before the freighter is out of there. Hell, even if you only employ two webs, the Mach has a massive bump reach of… drumroll …3.5km.

Just for your reference, trying to bump an Obelisk (the worst of the lot) with your dream Machariel yields this:

With no webs, the Obelisk needs to reach 73.13m/s, which takes 44.05s. In that time, the Mach can travel 76km from a standstill.
With one web, the Obelisk needs to reach 29.25m/s, which takes 11.33s. In that time, the Mach can travel 13km from a standstill.
With two webs, the Obelisk needs to reach 14.00m/s, which takes 4.92s. In that time, the Mach can travel 3.5km from a standstill.
With three webs, the Obelisk needs to reach 9.21m/s, which takes 3.15s. In that time, the Mach can travel 1.6km from a standstill.
With four webs, the Obelisk needs to reach 7.64m/s, which takes 2.59s. In that time, the Mach can travel 1.1km from a standstill.
With five webs, the Obelisk needs to reach 7.16m/s, which takes 2.42s. In that time, the Mach can travel 0.97km from a standstill.


…oh, and bumping doesn't help against the target logging off. You need to aggress him (before he logs) for that — something you won't do in a Mach — at which point the whole bumping business becomes pretty irrelevant.

I would go back to high just to afk lvl 4s in a Thanny.