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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New players, do yourself a favour, read the new dev blog re: AI

First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2012-10-01 20:00:00 UTC
If you are a new player, stop training drones now.
Focus on gunnery skills, likely large autocannons and minnie BS's.

Drones are soon to be wiped out as an effective weapons platform for missions.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2012-10-01 20:41:25 UTC
Because missions are obviously all newbies do, especially with drone boats.

Invalid signature format

Moondancer Starweaver
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#3 - 2012-10-01 20:51:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
If you are a new player, stop training drones now.
Focus on gunnery skills, likely large autocannons and minnie BS's.

Drones are soon to be wiped out as an effective weapons platform for missions.


Is this real? or just a post to scare new players off of drones?

Currently training for drone boats now since i am gallente.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-10-01 21:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Although he's failed to link his source, I guess he is referring to the NPC AI reworking thread ..

Here

and is therefore i suppose under the misguided impression that it means instant death to drones as soon as you launch them.

He is of course very wrong. It's the sleeper AI, which means they will have improved threat detection, nothing really overly dramatic there.

You can keep training for your droneboats.
If your not afk you will have absolutely no problems at all, as you can simply and easily recall your drones.
All thats changed is AFK droneboating is threatened, your drones will have a much higher chance of dieing whilst your afk.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-10-01 21:46:42 UTC
They are using the sleeper AI, but they are also going to change a few variables so the npc that are going to use it won't hate drones nearly as much as the sleepers do
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-10-01 21:46:44 UTC

In the Dev Blog, they clearly state that the threat level an AI assigns to drones will not be crazy (like sleepers), and that you can keep your drones alive by careful management of your drones. Expect to occasionally replace drones... also, a hint: RR is usually assessed as a high threat when assessing an enemy, so if you fit a RR module to your ship, and activate it on a drone, your ship will probably pull much more aggro than your drones.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#7 - 2012-10-01 21:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Quick breakdown is that current NPC AI is about on a par with a rock, they're improving it so it's on a par with a sparrow.
NPC's will switch targets and attack your drones or fleetmates if they are seen as a threat. Currently NPCs only attack drones that get too close therefore some people run missions using a "tank" to take all the NPC aggro (1 ship tanks, drones or fleetmates are pretty much invulnerable) this will no longer be possible.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2012-10-01 22:15:21 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Although he's failed to link his source, I guess he is referring to the NPC AI reworking thread ..

Here

and is therefore i suppose under the misguided impression that it means instant death to drones as soon as you launch them.

He is of course very wrong. It's the sleeper AI, which means they will have improved threat detection, nothing really overly dramatic there.

You can keep training for your droneboats.
If your not afk you will have absolutely no problems at all, as you can simply and easily recall your drones.
All thats changed is AFK droneboating is threatened, your drones will have a much higher chance of dieing whilst your afk.


Couldn't say it better then this.

Don't be afraid to train drones at all, just don't go AFK with them deployed while in a mission and letting them do the work for you.

I point out from the dev blog this part

CCP FoxFour wrote:
Will NPC's kill my drones?
A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.


9 Level 4 missions (when you get there) and lost 2 drones. That isn't bad by any means.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2012-10-01 22:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For what it is worth, I lived in unknown space or "w-space" (wormhole space) for over 2.5 years, and used drones. W-space has NPC called "Sleepers", which are notorious for being drone killers.

Yet using drones was still possible.

Sure, every once in a while the Sleepers would nuke the odd drone, but that typically only happened when it was also webbed so that it couldn't be recalled to the safety of the drone bay. [HINT: Webifiers are a priority target.] Thankfully there are far less webifiers in missions.

When the Sleepers were particularly drone hungry, switching to sentry drones worked as sentries can be instantly recalled to the safety of the drone bay. Some of my corpmates would just switch to a flight of cheap T1 combat drones instead, and not worry as much about them being destroyed.

The care and feeding of drones is important to ensure a long life (both their's and your's), so don't ignore them, use common sense, and you won't have any problem using drones.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-10-01 23:18:07 UTC
My drones liked pie, but they will never experience that sweet flavor again because they're dead! Evil

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#11 - 2012-10-01 23:24:03 UTC
Do not believe the people posting mis-information in this thread. I too have also lived in wh's for a long time, and have run Incursions. I am intimately aware of how the Sleeper/Incursion AI works. ANY introduction of this AI to missions will mean you will lose drones, a TON of drones.

The Vexor and Myrmidon, forget it them as viable mission boats. The Domi and Ishtar, if you only use Sentries, well, they will survive, but your DPS is so heavily hammered that there is no point in using the ship. Plus, when using sentries, you will have to stay within 2,000 metres of them. That means speed-tanking a site while letting your drones kill is no longer a viable option.

I encourage all of you to test this on the Duality server as soon as it is up and running again, then post your grievances on the GD forum, here, and of course in the new features testing forum.

Scream loud, scream long, scream everywhere.

Oh, and of course, it has been immensely convenient that apparently that the only person reporting how easy this AI is on drones is the person who built the AI. Supposedly Fox Four is running missions without any problems, but CCP just can't seem to get Duality up and running for everyone else to test this and prove her wrong.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-10-02 00:23:58 UTC
Wierd, but I use a Gila in a wormhole, and I dont have this "lose a TON of drones problem"

Admittedly I dont have super awesome droneskills yet (ie only T1 Sentry/Heavy Drones), but i can and DO send them 80km+ away ...... I havent lost any drones yet, in several months of wormhole exploration.


How is Drone DPS going to be hammered, DDA's are getting a % increase in thier bonus as explained here.


Only AFK playstyles are negatively affected by this change, and if your AFK then you deserve to lose everything.





p.s.
Never feed drones pie, only give them caek!.


Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2012-10-02 00:31:27 UTC
I used a Myrm with arty and drones for a year or so in WH's & lost very few drones, it's all about keeping an eye on the buggers and recalling them when they get aggro, although it can be like herding cats to get the things to actually attack stuff together.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2012-10-02 04:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Kitty Bear wrote:
Only AFK playstyles are negatively affected by this change, and if your AFK then you deserve to lose everything.

Bingo.

Probably why I've also not lost a mining ship yet.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#15 - 2012-10-02 06:45:38 UTC
Honestly, let's just wait until Duality does come up, then we can test it for ourselves and put any preconceived notions to rest.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-02 07:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Do not believe the people posting mis-information in this thread. I too have also lived in wh's for a long time, and have run Incursions. I am intimately aware of how the Sleeper/Incursion AI works. ANY introduction of this AI to missions will mean you will lose drones, a TON of drones.

The Vexor and Myrmidon, forget it them as viable mission boats. The Domi and Ishtar, if you only use Sentries, well, they will survive, but your DPS is so heavily hammered that there is no point in using the ship. Plus, when using sentries, you will have to stay within 2,000 metres of them. That means speed-tanking a site while letting your drones kill is no longer a viable option.

I encourage all of you to test this on the Duality server as soon as it is up and running again, then post your grievances on the GD forum, here, and of course in the new features testing forum.

Scream loud, scream long, scream everywhere.

Oh, and of course, it has been immensely convenient that apparently that the only person reporting how easy this AI is on drones is the person who built the AI. Supposedly Fox Four is running missions without any problems, but CCP just can't seem to get Duality up and running for everyone else to test this and prove her wrong.


The only one spreading mis-information is you.

Went on the test server and ran some missions with new AI, and after two houts of testing lost not one drone. Just pay attention to your drones and recall them when the get aggro.

I just sense an OP who whines cause he soon cant AFK mossion in his Domi.
I say NPC must be made even harder.

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Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-10-02 07:26:39 UTC
OP, if you can't stand CCP's change in your AFK ISK farming turf and can't handle the loss of the odd drone now and then, then you don't belong to EVE, go back to gold farming in WoW.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-10-02 07:29:38 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
OP, if you can't stand CCP's change in your AFK ISK farming turf and can't handle the loss of the odd drone now and then, then you don't belong to EVE, go back to gold farming in WoW.


This.

Btw, dont think this belongs in New Citizen Q&A. But that's ISD's job to decide.

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Kestutis Fujika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-10-02 07:52:01 UTC
U can recall sentrys fast., but what about heavys? Did u ever tryed recover them from 50km+?
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-10-02 08:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Other people spend ISK on ammos that are lost once fired, how hard is it to lose a few drones now and then?

Lets keep the comments on topic shall we. - ISD Athechu

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

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