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Ore Imbalance
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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-10-01 02:29:57 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...
Pipa Porto
#242 - 2012-10-01 02:44:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...


Since when is mining in .5 harder than mining in 1.0?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#243 - 2012-10-01 03:30:09 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...


Since when is mining in .5 harder than mining in 1.0?


1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.

2nd, I was assuming they would replace the current belt with the "smaller" ones seen in higher sec system like putting only the current 1.0 belt in 0.6. This make them "harder" to mine because there would just not be as much ore to mine total. If he only meant to put them there as extra, then it ahs no change at all because of course it's not really harder once you can deal with the rats.
Pipa Porto
#244 - 2012-10-01 03:38:06 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.
Roll The Osprey has plenty of room to fit a launcher and drones.

Also, the really beginner miner isn't the market setter. So we're not talking about them when we're talking about ore/mineral prices.

Quote:
2nd, I was assuming they would replace the current belt with the "smaller" ones seen in higher sec system like putting only the current 1.0 belt in 0.6. This make them "harder" to mine because there would just not be as much ore to mine total. If he only meant to put them there as extra, then it ahs no change at all because of course it's not really harder once you can deal with the rats.


Then it's still easier to mine in .6 than 1.0 space. It's just "harder" overall. But unless it gets to the point where HS is getting mined out before it can regenerate, that's not going to reduce the supply significantly. It'll just **** off the miners.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#245 - 2012-10-01 03:47:50 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

Then it's still easier to mine in .6 than 1.0 space. It's just "harder" overall. But unless it gets to the point where HS is getting mined out before it can regenerate, that's not going to reduce the supply significantly. It'll just **** off the miners.


But even there, the idea is bad because anything cutting the supply of low end ore will only make the current imbalance even bigger. If you want to make ore in low and null sec worth more, you don't put a single stick in the wheels of high sec miner. You either remove some of the sticks in thier wheels so they can overmine or increase the demand for high end ore to raise thier price.

You could also but even more sticks in low/null sec miner's wheel but thats not a good diea imo. They seem to deal with enough crap already.
Pipa Porto
#246 - 2012-10-01 05:18:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Then it's still easier to mine in .6 than 1.0 space. It's just "harder" overall. But unless it gets to the point where HS is getting mined out before it can regenerate, that's not going to reduce the supply significantly. It'll just **** off the miners.


But even there, the idea is bad because anything cutting the supply of low end ore will only make the current imbalance even bigger. If you want to make ore in low and null sec worth more, you don't put a single stick in the wheels of high sec miner. You either remove some of the sticks in thier wheels so they can overmine or increase the demand for high end ore to raise thier price.

You could also but even more sticks in low/null sec miner's wheel but thats not a good diea imo. They seem to deal with enough crap already.


I think we're talking past each other. I never said the idea was a good one.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#247 - 2012-10-01 17:13:59 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...


Do you think high-sec miners influence the price of ore that much? Hulkageddon and the last update didn't seem to do jack to them as far as I can see.

couldn't warp into a belt without tripping over 3 retrievers about a month ago. prices should have gone down but they didn't.

forums.  serious business.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#248 - 2012-10-01 17:19:09 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.
Roll The Osprey has plenty of room to fit a launcher and drones.




Matters not. When I started 2 1/2 yrs ago, yes an Osprey had issues with the .5 rats. Sheesh. You just love pooh-poohing every statement made on the Forums.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vanria Vexed
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#249 - 2012-10-01 17:47:10 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...


Do you think high-sec miners influence the price of ore that much? Hulkageddon and the last update didn't seem to do jack to them as far as I can see.

couldn't warp into a belt without tripping over 3 retrievers about a month ago. prices should have gone down but they didn't.


The massive banning of bots and the continued effort to keep them out of the game has also contributed to the higher but steady prices we are seeing currently for the high sec minerals. I'm sure we now have more players actually doing work mining and wanting to get decent pay for their efforts in high sec. These players aren't worried about pricing the minerals to move, they set their prices and go mine more. Contrary to this is the nullsec minerals where everyone supplying is undercutting each other into the ground just to get the minerals to move. There seems to be an abundance of supply compared to how much is actually moving on the market to be used.

**Playing EVE at times feels like putting a 10000 piece puzzle together, enjoying the accomplishment of succedding in completing it, then having some random stranger walk by and flip your table over. **
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#250 - 2012-10-01 21:01:45 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.
Roll The Osprey has plenty of room to fit a launcher and drones.




Matters not. When I started 2 1/2 yrs ago, yes an Osprey had issues with the .5 rats. Sheesh. You just love pooh-poohing every statement made on the Forums.


I didn;t want to push this one furhter but the real problem is the beginner miner have close to 2 support skill. His shield skill are crap and so are his launcher skill. A T1 light missile launcher with super basic skill has trouble dealing with a .5 rat and your basic tank melt away kinda fast. Been there about 1,5 month ago so I clearly remember asking fleetmate to stop chatting and setting thier damn drone on the rat eating me.

Of course as Pipa said tho, it was a bad argument as the Osprey miner has close to 0 influence on the market price. He only has a potential small influence if he was potentially to become at least a barge miner but even at that point, the total market is too big...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#251 - 2012-10-01 21:07:37 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.


or they could just change the belt spawns in high sec, and shuffle the 0.8-1.0 rock size belts down to 0.5-0.7. maybe leave some noob systems with a little rock.



So we will take the currently easy to mine ore and make them harder to mine. This will reduce the supply of said ore which eman even higher price on those ore.

Good idea sir.

yeah...


Do you think high-sec miners influence the price of ore that much? Hulkageddon and the last update didn't seem to do jack to them as far as I can see.

couldn't warp into a belt without tripping over 3 retrievers about a month ago. prices should have gone down but they didn't.


Raise high end mineral demand or lower the supply. Those are the 2 way to increase the high end ore value. At the same time, you must not affect low end minerals supply/demand or the effect will be partially absorbed.
Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#252 - 2012-10-01 21:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap James Tkirk
So nerf one groups income so the other group can make more isk sounds a bit ya know R3TARDED

seriously if you want high ends to stop dropping like stones GTFO out of null less supply = greater demand = better prices ccp shouldnt fix this as its a player driven economy and should be left alone

let the players fix it
Herr Hammer Draken
#253 - 2012-10-02 06:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
So nerf one groups income so the other group can make more isk sounds a bit ya know R3TARDED

seriously if you want high ends to stop dropping like stones GTFO out of null less supply = greater demand = better prices ccp shouldnt fix this as its a player driven economy and should be left alone

let the players fix it


Here, here I so agree!

Still waiting for the price to crash on high sec ores. However since the barge changes one month ago many of these miners if not most of them have been stock piling their ore not yet ready to make that trip to market. We may have to wait until they all begin to bring their loads to market before we see price movement. Should be the next week or so for most I think. Some are already moving loads to market. A lot of these guys are going to need to sell enough ore to plex accounts.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Tikera Tissant
#254 - 2012-10-02 06:52:19 UTC
The big alliances have mining ops which mine everything, and not just ABC. And they use it to built a hell of a lot of things, not just T1 ships.
Because of building spreas, some of them have to import ore from high-sec in order to keep up with the demand on building. This affect the ore price.

Why one high-sec mineral price jumps, is mainly because of what alliance is currently speed building and their region. Some regions, even with ABC ore, are completely short of iso for example, which causes that mineral to become in a very high demand.

This is the market and inflation. Its not ore imbalancing.
People have more isk because of FW, doing incursions before the nerf (and after) and so on, renting fees in null space and so on.
So they can afford to pay more, which means builders sell for more, and ore miners sell for more.
A year ago you could only do about 3/4 to half of what you are doing today, but you also payed less for other things, plex costed almost half of what it cost today.
So of course the prices are higher. No s**h sherlock.


And as stated earlier, there is no freakin any risk in mining in 0.0 space.
Most of these systems are either completely empty, or have mining ops backed-up by guards and intel.
The only place with real risk is in WHs, where you can't have real intel or know what is coming, unless you are a serious paranoid person.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#255 - 2012-10-02 14:13:14 UTC
Tikera Tissant wrote:
The big alliances have mining ops which mine everything, and not just ABC. And they use it to built a hell of a lot of things, not just T1 ships.
Because of building spreas, some of them have to import ore from high-sec in order to keep up with the demand on building. This affect the ore price.

Why one high-sec mineral price jumps, is mainly because of what alliance is currently speed building and their region. Some regions, even with ABC ore, are completely short of iso for example, which causes that mineral to become in a very high demand.

This is the market and inflation. Its not ore imbalancing.
People have more isk because of FW, doing incursions before the nerf (and after) and so on, renting fees in null space and so on.
So they can afford to pay more, which means builders sell for more, and ore miners sell for more.
A year ago you could only do about 3/4 to half of what you are doing today, but you also payed less for other things, plex costed almost half of what it cost today.
So of course the prices are higher. No s**h sherlock.


And as stated earlier, there is no freakin any risk in mining in 0.0 space.
Most of these systems are either completely empty, or have mining ops backed-up by guards and intel.
The only place with real risk is in WHs, where you can't have real intel or know what is coming, unless you are a serious paranoid person.


Too bad big alliance actaully get everything possibly done in high sec because any production in low/null is more trouble.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2012-10-03 19:59:11 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.
Roll The Osprey has plenty of room to fit a launcher and drones.




Matters not. When I started 2 1/2 yrs ago, yes an Osprey had issues with the .5 rats. Sheesh. You just love pooh-poohing every statement made on the Forums.


Did you by any chance put up another tower?

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-10-03 20:02:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tikera Tissant wrote:
The big alliances have mining ops which mine everything, and not just ABC. And they use it to built a hell of a lot of things, not just T1 ships.
Because of building spreas, some of them have to import ore from high-sec in order to keep up with the demand on building. This affect the ore price.

Why one high-sec mineral price jumps, is mainly because of what alliance is currently speed building and their region. Some regions, even with ABC ore, are completely short of iso for example, which causes that mineral to become in a very high demand.

This is the market and inflation. Its not ore imbalancing.
People have more isk because of FW, doing incursions before the nerf (and after) and so on, renting fees in null space and so on.
So they can afford to pay more, which means builders sell for more, and ore miners sell for more.
A year ago you could only do about 3/4 to half of what you are doing today, but you also payed less for other things, plex costed almost half of what it cost today.
So of course the prices are higher. No s**h sherlock.


And as stated earlier, there is no freakin any risk in mining in 0.0 space.
Most of these systems are either completely empty, or have mining ops backed-up by guards and intel.
The only place with real risk is in WHs, where you can't have real intel or know what is coming, unless you are a serious paranoid person.


Too bad big alliance actaully get everything possibly done in high sec because any production in low/null is more trouble.


Someone finally gets it, I think I should go do a shot now.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-10-03 20:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
La Nariz wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1st for the really beginner miner, a belt rat in 0.5 is problematic. An Osprey for example will ahve trouble dealing with a 0.5 belt rat.
Roll The Osprey has plenty of room to fit a launcher and drones.




Matters not. When I started 2 1/2 yrs ago, yes an Osprey had issues with the .5 rats. Sheesh. You just love pooh-poohing every statement made on the Forums.


Did you by any chance put up another tower?


If you are talking about the light missile launcher you can fit, then it's sadly still terribad because the beginner miner would lack the support skill to make it efficient. Going like a true newbie, 0.6 is already hard to deal with. I personally ahd to warp out of belt often before filling the cargo hold. Thats a pure miner training with no support skill because miners who does not know better will only train toward mining.

La Nariz wrote:


Someone finally gets it, I think I should go do a shot now.



It was said 14 trillion time in the last 2 weeks iirc...
Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#259 - 2012-10-03 20:09:58 UTC
And again mineral prices are not in essence affected by ppl in mining cruisers and below the lack of skills with the minimum M3 per hour is but a fraction of a drop in a bucket if you cant tank rats in HS you need to get into cahoots with a group that can support you and assist in your defence while mining and serisouly the time spent on training the crusier and support skill could have put you in a barge with enough drone/tank skills for them rats boys............ if not maybe WoW would be glad to have ya back since thinking isnt a big part of the game

\o/
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2012-10-03 20:18:39 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


Did you by any chance put up another tower?


If you are talking about the light missile launcher you can fit, then it's sadly still terribad because the beginner miner would lack the support skill to make it efficient. Going like a true newbie, 0.6 is already hard to deal with. I personally ahd to warp out of belt often before filling the cargo hold. Thats a pure miner training with no support skill because miners who does not know better will only train toward mining.

La Nariz wrote:


Someone finally gets it, I think I should go do a shot now.



It was said 14 trillion time in the last 2 weeks iirc...


I'm not talking about missile launchers at all, I'm merely wondering if Krixtal "ragequit" Icefluxor put up another tower. Also just because we say something and corroborate it doesn't mean morons won't keep spouting the same wrong crap Sad.

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