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CCP give us carriers in highsec plox
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#1 - 2012-10-01 07:33:52 UTC
If you have to move quite a bit or rigged, expensive ships, moving them in a freighter is a bad idea, as you cant prevent it from being suicide ganked. Orca is insufficient, it cant hold even one rigged battleship.

The only solution for moving a lot of rigged expensive ships is to allow carriers in highsec. Idc if its use is limited (cant enter a mission pocket, or even put RR and offensive mods online, or activate drones). Theres an option of making an another ship for that purpose in highsec, yes, but we have carriers already.

Allowing cynos in highsec could be unbalancing, so I'd allow carriers to use gates as well, for purpose of travelling in highsec. Either will do, however.

Discuss.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2012-10-01 07:39:49 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
If you have to move quite a bit or rigged, expensive ships, moving them in a freighter is a bad idea, as you cant prevent it from being suicide ganked.

Stopped reading here and bolded the reason for why I think your idea is bad.

How did you Veterans start?
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#3 - 2012-10-01 07:43:17 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
If you have to move quite a bit or rigged, expensive ships, moving them in a freighter is a bad idea, as you cant prevent it from being suicide ganked.

Stopped reading here and bolded the reason for why I think your idea is bad.


Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-10-01 07:59:15 UTC
nah
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#5 - 2012-10-01 08:04:35 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You know this game is basically all about PVP, right? And suicide ganking IS allowed, in fact it is one of those parts where emergent gameplay is visible. And freighter pilots have game mechanics to avoid getting ganked , you should do some research instead of starting IWIN threads.

Invalid signature format
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#6 - 2012-10-01 08:07:21 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You know this game is basically all about PVP, right? And suicide ganking IS allowed, in fact it is one of those parts where emergent gameplay is visible. And freighter pilots have game mechanics to avoid getting ganked , you should do some research instead of starting IWIN threads.



Which is what, exactly? That sole ship on the gate I could see with my scout can just start bumping me off the gate, and awox a dozen tornados to seal my fate.

Theres no way to avoid it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2012-10-01 08:54:42 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Which is what, exactly? That sole ship on the gate I could see with my scout can just start bumping me off the gate, and awox a dozen tornados to seal my fate.

Theres no way to avoid it.
Sure there is. The simplest way is to not move the ship and modules in one go — no one ship costs enough to be worth a freighter gank, and even two ships will be reasonably safe. Conversely, no fittings will take up enough space to make it impossible to carry them in a safe manner (blockade runner or Orca).

Tool #1 of avoiding ganking: carrying too little to be worth ganking. Works like a charm.
Esker Sheep
Solos Nexus
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-10-01 09:04:55 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:

Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You can avoid suicide ganking by playing the game instead of AFK auto-piloting through systems. Here's a quick checklist:


  • Assume that if you are transporting a valuable cargo you are a target for gankers
  • Scout ahead, possibly multiple systems with multiple scouts, looking for ganking fleets. If you jump through a gate and see 10 tier 3 BCs or BS on scan its possible is an off-grid gang waiting for a target.
  • Have a recon ready with webs to speed up alignment and warp.
  • Use safe spots, off-grid fleet members, as warp targets when you jump through a gate.
  • Look at the map for possible ganking hot-spots.


If its possible to move Freighters through null-sec, its possible to move them through Empire.

Not supported.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-01 11:29:54 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:

Which is what, exactly? That sole ship on the gate I could see with my scout can just start bumping me off the gate, and awox a dozen tornados to seal my fate.

Theres no way to avoid it.


3 webs is all it takes to insta warp a freighter after it jumps in. No time for them to bump you.

...

AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#10 - 2012-10-01 13:32:48 UTC
why would you allow carriers in highsec anyway? if carriers get allowed people start crying about rorquals in highsec for their ore compression "because they are not gonna load billions of isk in a freighter to move it the trade hub because of the risk of getting ganked"

with that you also get the fact that carebear corps get hotdropped during war times and people start crying that they want caps removed from highsec.

The entire fact that jump capable capital ships are only allowed in lowsec and below is because of the risk/isk ratio.

so if you want to move ships unrig them and move them in a freighter do multiple runs if you have to

Lone Star Warrior
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-10-01 13:44:39 UTC
Esker Sheep wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:

Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You can avoid suicide ganking by playing the game instead of AFK auto-piloting through systems. Here's a quick checklist:


  • Assume that if you are transporting a valuable cargo you are a target for gankers
  • Scout ahead, possibly multiple systems with multiple scouts, looking for ganking fleets. If you jump through a gate and see 10 tier 3 BCs or BS on scan its possible is an off-grid gang waiting for a target.
  • Have a recon ready with webs to speed up alignment and warp.
  • Use safe spots, off-grid fleet members, as warp targets when you jump through a gate.
  • Look at the map for possible ganking hot-spots.


If its possible to move Freighters through null-sec, its possible to move them through Empire.

Not supported.



IOW plan ahead and fly smarter than your opponents. That's how you should do everything in Eve, tbh.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#12 - 2012-10-01 14:34:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Which is what, exactly? That sole ship on the gate I could see with my scout can just start bumping me off the gate, and awox a dozen tornados to seal my fate.

Theres no way to avoid it.
Sure there is. The simplest way is to not move the ship and modules in one go — no one ship costs enough to be worth a freighter gank, and even two ships will be reasonably safe. Conversely, no fittings will take up enough space to make it impossible to carry them in a safe manner (blockade runner or Orca).

Tool #1 of avoiding ganking: carrying too little to be worth ganking. Works like a charm.


Really? If I have to move 5b 30j away, I should split it and move it five times for total of 9*30=270j? Pls be serious.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#13 - 2012-10-01 14:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Esker Sheep wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:

Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You can avoid suicide ganking by playing the game instead of AFK auto-piloting through systems. Here's a quick checklist:


  • Assume that if you are transporting a valuable cargo you are a target for gankers
  • Scout ahead, possibly multiple systems with multiple scouts, looking for ganking fleets. If you jump through a gate and see 10 tier 3 BCs or BS on scan its possible is an off-grid gang waiting for a target.
  • Have a recon ready with webs to speed up alignment and warp.
  • Use safe spots, off-grid fleet members, as warp targets when you jump through a gate.
  • Look at the map for possible ganking hot-spots.


If its possible to move Freighters through null-sec, its possible to move them through Empire.

Not supported.


How about this:

Gankers are docked.
One ship is at the gate, MWD fit, with ship scanner. he will scan and if I have valuable cargo, start bumping me out of the gate, and awox buddies to gank me.
No scouting helps.

Truest me I know how its being done I witnessed it with my own eyes. You cant lie that freighter can escape by any way once the bumping begins.

Ganking hotspots you cant evade, like Sivala, or Niarja, etc etc.

Recon, logi, ships with webs wont help if they suicide a noob ship, so you cant log off or warp off due to aggro even webbed, or bring a blackbird along in ganking gang.
Corteztkiller
Trivium
#14 - 2012-10-01 14:48:48 UTC
There is a topic somewhere recently about giving Freighters and Jump Freighters fitting choices.

To me this seems like a much better solution than screwing up high sec with carriers.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-10-01 15:09:18 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Ganking hotspots you cant evade, like Sivala, or Niarja, etc etc..



Avoid the hot spots. Empire is not 0.0 or low sec. very few pipeline systems one way in or out. Know how to use maps. there is more than one way to go from point A to point b.

Niarja....its a major chokepoint for many of the empire dec merc crews. they get bored enough they will gank. Also if you take the time to cruise niarja, pretty much most of the time any action is on the one gate ( the one gate any autoplot course will hit if jita is involved in the course in any way....sneaky gankers, they used automap too doh). Do something radical....don't use that one gate.

This a classic 0.0/low sec trick. Don't use obvious death gates. take the long way around. Ops and roams don't stop because a gate is camped hard daily or a known death trap. They whip out maps and fc says here is our new course layout. Empire same thing appiies. Lots of map sources out there, went through the trouble of writing al this crap down and/or making pretty web pages to use. Use them, what tney are there for. Right click set desto...yes it will get you in some bad spots done blindly.
Mainly becasue when you use it, you are using the same course that got 20 other haulers killed that day. Gankers are like stray dogs, feed em once, they jsut keep staying around to see if they get more food.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#16 - 2012-10-01 15:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You know this game is basically all about PVP, right? And suicide ganking IS allowed, in fact it is one of those parts where emergent gameplay is visible. And freighter pilots have game mechanics to avoid getting ganked , you should do some research instead of starting IWIN threads.


I just want to put this out there for all the jump drive haters out there (incase this freighter debate turns into a Jumpdrive iwin debate):

Non consensual PvP is legitimate.

But.....

Non consensual denial of non consensual pvp is just as legitimate.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#17 - 2012-10-01 15:40:12 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You know this game is basically all about PVP, right? And suicide ganking IS allowed, in fact it is one of those parts where emergent gameplay is visible. And freighter pilots have game mechanics to avoid getting ganked , you should do some research instead of starting IWIN threads.


I just want to put this out there for all the jump drive haters out there:

Non consensual PvP is legitimate.

But.....

Non consensual denial of non consensual pvp is just as legitimate.


Fine, give freighter pilots tools to PVP, to evade the gangs willing to gank them. I have nothing against non-concensual PVP, but I'm very much against that some ships should be farmable the moment they undock.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#18 - 2012-10-01 15:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Sorry I wont fill a freighter with 5b or more of rigged ships and modules. It simply makes no sense. Why the game should be a PITA just so someone can suicide gank completely helpless victiom (theres no way to prevent suicide ganking as a freighter pilot).

If you want suicide ganking to be allowed, why not, but.. those freighter pilots must have a game mechanic that allows them to avoid suicide ganking. Without it its one sided completely, and its not a matter will you be ganked, but when.


You know this game is basically all about PVP, right? And suicide ganking IS allowed, in fact it is one of those parts where emergent gameplay is visible. And freighter pilots have game mechanics to avoid getting ganked , you should do some research instead of starting IWIN threads.


I just want to put this out there for all the jump drive haters out there:

Non consensual PvP is legitimate.

But.....

Non consensual denial of non consensual pvp is just as legitimate.


Fine, give freighter pilots tools to PVP, to evade the gangs willing to gank them. I have nothing against non-concensual PVP, but I'm very much against that some ships should be farmable the moment they undock.


Not going to argue. Whichever Dev(s) decided it was good foresight to give Freighters 0 slots with its current size, speed & mass should be taken out back and shot. Survivors should be shot again.

At the very least, given the current game mechanics that allow freighters to be portaled by Titans and Jump bridges, and the escort fleets they can arrange to move them around.... Freighters should be able to fit some form of tank or e-war modules.

Unfortunately, even with slots... freighters are, like most capital ships... burdened with the stigma of , 20 minute close to docking range times, 2 hour align times, 2 day warp times and the uncanny inability to escape when needed via a stargate or logoffski. So no matter where you are, be it hi-sec or whs, be it in an undock or undera POS shield waiting to get bumped out... regardless of the big ship your in.... you will have to run the risk of being vulnerable to these ***** smaller ships in large numbers...


Until CCP grows some sense and revises the risk factor that size specific sub-cap ship hulls pose to cap hulls...and even supers...

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-10-01 16:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Really? If I have to move 5b 30j away, I should split it and move it five times for total of 9*30=270j? Pls be serious.
No. You split it and move it twice for a total of 120 jumps, half of which are done in a fast-aligning, fast-warping Blockade runner. Just pick the loss you favour: a tiny amount of time or 5bn ISK.

Quote:
Fine, give freighter pilots tools to PVP, to evade the gangs willing to gank them.
They have plenty of tools. They just refuse to use them and then blame everyone else for their own poor decisions.

Asuka Solo wrote:
Until CCP grows some sense and revises the risk factor that size specific sub-cap ship hulls pose to cap hulls...and even supers...
Well, yes. Caps and supers could use being a fair bit weaker to subcaps than they currently are.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2012-10-01 16:49:46 UTC
So bad... So so so bad..

Your idea is terrible.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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