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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Vaffel Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2011-10-17 06:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaffel Junior
lol.. "The goons forumposter brigade" is strong in here.. Lol
I vote for only one CSM pr aliance.... for starters.
Mittens.... you are NOT getting my vote
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#302 - 2011-10-17 06:56:12 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
The problem i have with Mittani as the head of the CSM is that he is a high-profile alliance leader, and i doubt that he would agree with changes for the sake of balance, if said changes were to somehow interfere with his own alliance, or disagree with changes that would affect his enemies more than it would his own ally. He cannot have an impartial opinion on most subjects he deals with as a CSM member.

But unfortunatly that is in the nature of the CSM election. Besides being chairman doesnt mean he gets the final word, only that he gets to pass it on. This CSM has some very good members, like seleene and white tree, and i trust their judgement.


This is foolish and uninformed. Goonswarm has one of the largest supercap fleets in the game, as well as some of the largest technetium holdings. I've vehemently advocated for nerfing both, loudly and in public.

You're welcome to spew your tinfoil theories though.


But you are happy to manipulate the game , such as attacking ice miners for your own gains.. Your words will not make any difference to peoples opinion of you.


It's just hulkageddon for goon, and everyone had fair warning. Jesus the attacking ice miners stuff is want eve is about, emergent gameplay.

Seriously mate, learn to accept eve is about loosing stuff and trying to gain from other people. I'm against scamming but don't atop people from doing it, just shows how sad they are in rl, but its a game play style. I also hate goons term of pubbies as they are degenerating someone else's game play style. If they cant take the abuse on their own style they shouldn't give it.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#303 - 2011-10-17 06:57:11 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"

Fight? Where?

Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification?

Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad.


Other than posting about it (often and badly) what are you doing to protect the poor indy players?

There are many ways G##n. But 'cos you guys are mostly all mouth and no brains ya wouldn't understand even if it came up and bit ya on the ass.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#304 - 2011-10-17 07:01:05 UTC
The classic "you wouldn't understand what I'm doing anyway" defense. Does it involve forum whining? Oh please?
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#305 - 2011-10-17 07:01:51 UTC
This thread is full of concentrated stupid. Scamming and herfing are parts of Eve. They've been parts of Eve forever. I am absolutely, positively, 100% in support of a CSM member representing this facet of the Eve experience. Eve dies when these things become anathema.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#306 - 2011-10-17 07:02:04 UTC
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
I also hate goons term of pubbies as they are degenerating someone else's game play style. If they cant take the abuse on their own style they shouldn't give it.


Pubbie doesn't mean . . . whatever you think it means. It has nothing to do with game play style. Pubbie is derived from public, as in "public recruiting corporation" or "member of the general public". All it really means is "not a goon" and therefore it is not an insult at all, unless you're embarrassed by not being a goon.

Then again, I'm a goon so I'm probably lying about that, and it actually has something to do with pubes. Dirty, smelly pubes.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#307 - 2011-10-17 07:03:36 UTC
Vaffel Junior wrote:


Mittens.... you are NOT getting my vote


He is already in, numbnut.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2011-10-17 07:03:55 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Trainwreck McGee wrote:
I am killin an ice miner everytime someone QQ's about Goons

Seriously who ******* cares if Goons are killing ice bots and ice zombies?

The ice zombies care.

More to the point, why do YOU care if a player decides to be an ice zombie anyway? Wtf does that have to do with you?

You payin' his subs or what?


No, but his flooding the market with "free" isk and oxytopes is ruining the goddamned game.

It screws up the economy, it screws up the player/ccp interaction (see also: l4 mission buff), it skews the game closer and closer towards a game that you play while AFK as opposed to an actual fun one.

Remember people, these botters do not actually like EVE. If they liked EVE, they'd play it. Instead, they found a way to "play" the game without actually having to play. They are the enemy and should be treated as such by all upstanding and honorable Capsuleers.

Think about this: If we Goons had been destroying those pathetic ice bots for the past 2 years, maybe, just maybe, CCP would have revamped mining so that it requires a little bit of interaction and made it more dynamic. And then maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, people wouldn't be so soul crushingly bored when mining that they resort to botting it out instead.


I'm an old, OLD Asheron's Call vet. I've seen what accepted unattended macroing does to a game, and if you had any common sense, you would be out there podding ice bots too.


Do your part to save EVE: Kill a botter today!
Botleten
Perkone
Caldari State
#309 - 2011-10-17 07:04:36 UTC
Jesus this terrible thread is still going?

The Apostle, you have a very unhealthy obsession with us goons. You find a way to poke your head into every thread relating to us, and even try to hijack other threads to make them about us. You must be stalking Mittens by now.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2011-10-17 07:06:00 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
The classic "you wouldn't understand what I'm doing anyway" defense. Does it involve forum whining? Oh please?


I think the hilarious thing is the Apostle has like 430 likes and literally all he posts is "WAAAAAAAH MITTANI IS A BIG FAT STUPIDHEAD MEANIE!!!"

(Granted, he mixes it up a bit now and then. Sometimes he whines about Goons being mean in general.)
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#311 - 2011-10-17 07:07:09 UTC
Botleten wrote:
Jesus this terrible thread is still going?

The Apostle, you have a very unhealthy obsession with us goons. You find a way to poke your head into every thread relating to us, and even try to hijack other threads to make them about us. You must be stalking Mittens by now.


I know, right? One would think The Apostle has a crush on Mittens.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Vaffel Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2011-10-17 07:07:34 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Vaffel Junior wrote:


Mittens.... you are NOT getting my vote


He is already in, numbnut.


So... hes CSM for life ? Lol
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2011-10-17 07:08:57 UTC
Vaffel Junior wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Vaffel Junior wrote:


Mittens.... you are NOT getting my vote


He is already in, numbnut.


So... hes CSM for life ? Lol


He's *my* CSM for life. <3 <3 <3
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#314 - 2011-10-17 07:10:47 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"

Fight? Where?

Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification?

Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad.




Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh.

So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it?


You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming.
If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty.

Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously



You seem to be confusing one role we play (CSM representative) for the other role we play (Player, playing a game.). Maybe this is why you're so upset?

Oh no, you aren't suggesting that we need to model our playing style to fit your preconceived notions just because we sit on an elected CCP advisory board? I assume you aren't cause that would be kinda dumb don't you think?

If you approach Mittani about buying a non existant supercap and get scammed then good for him, you're dumb. That has nothing to do with the CSM and your lack of critical thinking skills got you where you are today.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#315 - 2011-10-17 07:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Just Another Toon
Vile rat wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"

Fight? Where?

Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification?

Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad.




Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh.

So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it?


You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming.
If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty.

Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously



You seem to be confusing one role we play (CSM representative) for the other role we play (Player, playing a game.). Maybe this is why you're so upset?

Oh no, you aren't suggesting that we need to model our playing style to fit your preconceived notions just because we sit on an elected CCP advisory board? I assume you aren't cause that would be kinda dumb don't you think?

If you approach Mittani about buying a non existant supercap and get scammed then good for him, you're dumb. That has nothing to do with the CSM and your lack of critical thinking skills got you where you are today.


This is why you should be removed.. Your core fundamentals are wrong and you are not fit to serve any of the eve playerbase. Your represent everything that is bad about eve. Everything! You are in a position of TRUST!! You are not worthy or fit to hold that postition. You gain your position by manipulation. This is corruption to the core.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#316 - 2011-10-17 07:16:53 UTC
I guarantee the OP one thing.. if he were to physically drag Mittens into Hilmar's office and lay out his grievances and charges of scamming and ganking, Hilmar would look at Mittens, laugh, and throw the OP out of the building.

Mittens, and the CSM, don't make the game. They just play it.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2011-10-17 07:17:48 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
This is why you should be removed.. Your core fundamentals are wrong and you are not fit to serve any of the eve playerbase. Your represent everything that is bad about eve. Everything!


So vote him out. Simple.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#318 - 2011-10-17 07:18:21 UTC
Feligast wrote:
I guarantee the OP one thing.. if he were to physically drag Mittens into Hilmar's office and lay out his grievances and charges of scamming and ganking, Hilmar would look at Mittens, laugh, and throw the OP out of the building.

Mittens, and the CSM, don't make the game. They just play it.



Well maybe hilmar should step down as CEO as well then...
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#319 - 2011-10-17 07:19:00 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
This is why you should be removed.. Your core fundamentals are wrong and you are not fit to serve any of the eve playerbase. Your represent everything that is bad about eve. Everything!


So vote him out. Simple.


yeah im sure your 2000+ 4000 alts will stop that, its so corrupt its unreal.
Anna Lynne Larson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2011-10-17 07:20:09 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Tts seems lately goons and in particular The Mittani are stirring up lots of problems with eve.
Firstly he ordered the killing of ice miners

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19206&find=unread

and now in C&P more scamming going on

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=20988&find=unread

This is just recent, but there is the whole concept of what The Mittani and Goons represent. The represent everything that is wrong and bad about eve, scourning misery amongst eve players, the whole concept of scamming. Goonswarm can simply not be trusted in anyway and neither can its leadership, which in turn is the Chair of The CSM.

Now whether you believe scamming is part of the game or not, its actually bad for the game and to be honest the future of the game, how can you expect new players to want to enjoy the game and stay in the game when you have the biggest noob recruitment alliance, scamming them as soon as they enter the game? No wonder people leave.

Many people in eve do not know how goons work as a fundamental scamming alliance, and when people deal with someone like The Mittani who is supposed to represent the players as a whole, believe that he would be trustworthy, because he holds this position. Of course they would.. But The Mittani is using this to his own and his alliances advantage.


Its total abuse of his CSM position, where people will trust him and he is abusing that. Its not on nor acceptable. CSM members are seen as people that hold some trust and this should not be allowed by any CSM member when they are in post. Mittani is abusing his power and is not fit to hold this post...

Even Vile Rat should be removed too as he also represents what goons are..

You may ask, well he plays the game too, why cant he scam.?
Well he can, even though I personally hate scammers, eve allows it. The issue isnt about scamming as such, its about a person who is supposed to be held in high regard by the players, and abusing this to scam people. However his other actions suchs as attacking ice miners etc is not in the best interested of the game either. I quote the CSM Scope.


The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.


Some people stated and The Mittani also stated that he represents HIS constituents. This is Goons not the the playerbase! Now some are saying well only 1700 of those votes he got was from Goons the rest wasnt.

Seriously? Do you expect us to believe that the rest (or most of) where not from Goon alts or second/third accounts alts?

However the scope clearly states there should be active engagement with the 'PlayerBase' and also act “greatest good for the greater player base” this clearly is not the case, how can the biggest alliance which The Mittani Leads, which actively involves itself in scamming, and things like the miner slaughter si 'for the greater good of the player base' Its not! at all!

The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming.
If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty.

Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously

Its plain downright corruption.

If this wish to do what they do, fine, but the should not be in a position that represents players TRUST, they should step down!

No wonder eve is dying cos ccp allows stuff like this to happen from the CSM Chair..

Im sure many goons/alts will troll the thread so flame away - sticks and stones

but if you agree +1 like this post, i think its about time we stood up to this cr@p

I will also be filing an official petition and also be contacting as many MMO editorials as possible, to give this maximum exposure, on how much this is not right.

keep liking guys - even if you dont want to post ...



TOP QUOTE

"Being the CSM chairman doesn't mean that you're bound to a more limited set of rules as a player than anyone else. It's EVE, he can abuse his title as much as he wants as long as he doesn't breach NDA (like Darius III did)"


HOLY SH*T IS THIS TRUE - CCP PLEASE DONT TELL ME THIS IS TRUE!! OMFG EvilEvilEvil



You don't get EVE. The CSM are PLAYERS. Players are allowed to do whatever the **** they want. That includes issuing a game-wide embargo on Blue Ice; if it's within the rules (and suicide ganking and market manipulation ARE), then it can be done.

You're just mad.