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Which race generally has the best advanced cruisers?
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Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-16 07:53:05 UTC
Ok for the who and what of T2/T3 cruisers.

Gallente: Diemost - thorax on roids, terrible ship
Ishtar - cruiser size droneboat with BS size dronebay, can viably shield or armor tank, gila is still arguably better
Lachesis/Arazu - loooonnnngggg point, in cloaky or tanky versions
Phobos - worst hictor
Onerios - worst logi, dont waste your time
Proteus - some pvp use as a super heavy tackler or extreme close range damage dealing, can fit largest tank of the T3s but is still much worse than the loki or tengu.

Caldari: Eagle - moa on roids, terrible ship
Cerberus - missile sniper, can make a good kiting missile boat, but a drake is better in most situations, also usable for shield incursion fleets.
Falcon/Rook - ECM gods, in cloaky and tanky flavors, very nasty ships
Onyx - hictor, decent, kinda like a tankier drake with a bubble
Basilisk - the shield logi that needs cap transfers, good in large fleets and shield incursion fleets
Tengu - best solo PvE ship in the game, also quite a nasty PvP boat, probably the most overpowered subcap in the game.

Minmatar: Munin - artillery sniper, VERY effective in medium size fleets
Vagabond - fastest HAC, very nasty skirmish ship
Rapier/Huginn - looonnngggg webs, in cloaky or tanky version
Broadsword - arguably the best hictor, especially in shield fleets
Scimitar - the shield logi that doesn't need cap transfers, good in any size fleet less vulnerable to ewar than basis
Loki - probably the most versatile T3 cruiser, the only one that can shield or armor tank equally well, excellent PvE ship, probably the best T3 for PvP and very popular in incursion fleets (usually in armor tanked web bonused version)

Amarr: Zealot - best HAC in the game, the standard "armor hac" in PvP fleets, also VERY popular in armor incursion fleets and WH fleets
Sacrelige - armor tanked short range missile boat, not one of the better hacs out there.
Pilgrim/Curse - very nasty neut boats can cap out almost anything, in cloaky and tanky versions
Guardian - best armor logi, probably the only armor logi worth using, the cornerstone of armor pvp fleets and armor incursion fleets
Legion - generally shares the bottom of the T3 barrel with the proteus, mostly used like a tankier zealot, works well in armor incursion fleets and WH fleets, considered the worst T3 for PvP.
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2011-10-17 02:40:59 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Drennon Nas wrote:
I'm trying to decide what race I want to train advanced cruisers for.



Winmatar yesterday, winmatar today, winmatar tomorrow and the days after.


you must be new here. . . the minmatar thing is pretty recent actually. It was historically always Gallente and X. With the batton being passed between Amarr and Caldari for a few years. It is only in the past 3 years that minmatar have come up, and its only since the TE (the extra damage mod just for ACs) and proj. ammo changes (those changes should have been for hybrids - not proj.) that ACs went from crappy weapon system to zomg good. But even with these changes, Mini are not that great in the T2 department, they are however, great in the T1 department with Ruppy and Hurri.

Ok the Q is advanced cruisers.

T2, Amarr.

Zelot is arguable the long range fleet hac of all fleet hacs - armor tanked, great range, good tracking, constant and good dps, pretty fast and all that.

Curse - if uses cap, its dead. A little issues with heavy drone and missile users, but you can always neut the tackler and zip off.

--

T3:

Tengu - its the alpha and omega, the pinnicle of Caldari pvp - missles that reach far out and do good damage, a seemingly infinite tank. Sure some peopl will say the proteus or the loki as second, but these are distant seconds. The legion has the advantage of not needing ammo. . .which is great. . .but not with the pricetag.


So its really Caldari/Amarr - which surprisingly, is how it used to be in the very very beginning.

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-10-17 07:16:00 UTC
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Zelot is arguable the long range fleet hac of all fleet hacs - armor tanked, great range, good tracking, constant and good dps, pretty fast and all that.


Muninn poos all over the Zealot for fighting at range. Nearly identical speed and align time, but the Muninn has utility high slots, a dronebay, balanced shield resists and alpha on it's side. During the kite, it's damned easy for a Zealot to cap out clearing tackle and focusing on approaching primaries; Muninns can run run their MWD nearly cap stable (with skills and the aid of two cheap implants) and still kill anything that can keep up in a single volley.

Quote:
Curse - if uses cap, its dead. A little issues with heavy drone and missile users, but you can always neut the tackler and zip off.


In a world of autocannons as FOTM and cap injectors, the Curse looks pretty bad. To it's credit, it at least can solo (cap using turrret boats) effectively, unlike the other recons. However, it's effectiveness is never guaranteed. You can notice you're being neuted and ride out your MWD to get out of neut range with 0 cap. You can inject at the right time to keep your mods running. Contrast the Huginn: your options with being webbed? Turn on your prop mod, but odds are you won't be fast enough to catch whatever you were going for.

And the Huginn scales with damn near any gang size; from 2 right up to 249. The Curse in large fights is too squishy, too short range (in typical setups) and too situational.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-17 08:22:50 UTC
Zealots are great ..... if you can get a perfect warpin. They are a traditional counter to maelstrom alphafleets, but only if you can land at zero on them (a smart alphafleet FC will have bubbles set up to prevent warpins at zero), if you land out of range on an alphafleet your zealots will get blapped in seconds. They will get torn apart by hurricane welpfleets and kiting drake fleets.

Zealots are generally best in small gang work or in lowsec where they cant be bubbled out of range. They are still probably the most versatile of all HACs and are a good ship in their element. To work well in fleets they require a high level of individual pilot skill and a very good FC hence why they are mainly only effectively used by alliances like PL. In the hands of a good FC a zealot AHAC fleet is deadly, with a lacking FC they just become a mass of expensive lossmails.

Munins are better snipers
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-10-17 11:15:10 UTC
Songbird wrote:
What do you mean you don't see gallente ships, all these capsules are all of gallente pilots !!!


Man that's evil. lol

Capsules weren't shown for a long time. I wonder who modified it and put the code in there to show them as ships. P

Mega pops up at times and Taranis has been up there. Domi was up for a week or so but it's an old warhorse that's pulled out for the disco or neut games and is very good at being flexible in such ways.

Arazu also did a short appearance but so did a couple other recon's - I think some folks had a bit of fun with hot-drop covert ops stuff around that time.

They do pop up and things shift around a bit. It's why I watch the weapons as well as the ships. Hurricane was tops at one point on hulls but weapons systems had missile launchers as "top killers" - not many canes fit them so I doubt it came from that side.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-17 11:25:56 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Hurricane was tops at one point on hulls but weapons systems had missile launchers as "top killers" - not many canes fit them so I doubt it came from that side.


In addition to the obvious Drake and Tengu, most of the combat recons mount them as well, there was brief period where someone thought HML Sacrileges would be awesome, etc. Also, I'm not sure how KMs determine what weapon to display, but most of my Cane kills display "unknown"; possibly due to ACs, medium neut, point and drones all competing. I'm not exactly sure how it works.
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2011-10-19 07:40:54 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Zelot is arguable the long range fleet hac of all fleet hacs - armor tanked, great range, good tracking, constant and good dps, pretty fast and all that.


Muninn poos all over the Zealot for fighting at range. Nearly identical speed and align time, but the Muninn has utility high slots, a dronebay, balanced shield resists and alpha on it's side. During the kite, it's damned easy for a Zealot to cap out clearing tackle and focusing on approaching primaries; Muninns can run run their MWD nearly cap stable (with skills and the aid of two cheap implants) and still kill anything that can keep up in a single volley.



Don't get me wrong, my 0.0 character was mini and I flew the Munin all the time (before mini became a little imba) but even after the buff, the zelot still has better range, better dps, and while it can't run its MWD 23/7 - if you pulse it right and manage your cap well, you can keep it going. Just group them well. In hac fleets, I find the utility slots and the drones to be pretty useless - i used to keep light rep drones just in case there was a chance for a quick rep (rare), and the point blank missile high or the neut highs I don't think i ever used.

I still think the zelot is superior for 0.0.

in low/FW stuff - why bother, the rupture does everything just as well.
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