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This game is shallow
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Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-10-01 04:27:55 UTC
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:
This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism.
Gevlin wrote:
Join a corp that is active.
This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#62 - 2012-10-01 04:28:53 UTC
Not liking it is one thing, saying it has no depth is demonstrably false when comparing it to any other MMO.

I used the word of the day so everybody has to "scream real loud"!

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#63 - 2012-10-01 04:38:10 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?
Easily. There's no real inherent conflict between them. The game does allow you to take advantage of other people's naïvety to earn enough ISK to play without paying for it yourself, and it is much worse if you try to solo it. You just have to remember that the people you team up with might at any point take advantage of any thoughtless mistake you make. The key word is “might”, depending on what else you share with them…
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#64 - 2012-10-01 04:50:41 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:
This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism.
Gevlin wrote:
Join a corp that is active.
This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?

Creeps you out, doesn't it? Cool

PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-10-01 05:10:15 UTC
Tres Farmer wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:
This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism.
Gevlin wrote:
Join a corp that is active.
This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?

Creeps you out, doesn't it? Cool

PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from?


Lots of things on the forums do that, almost daily I feel like this at least once Ugh

http://youtu.be/UdI7RJr9ooA

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
pussnheels
Viziam
#66 - 2012-10-01 05:14:52 UTC
Vulix wrote:
EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.

Planetary interaction blows.

Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother

I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?

Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time

Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot

There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP

Wormholes are a grind

Missions are a grind

Mining is a grind

Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath

etc

Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level.

If you think EvE is shallow , than i don't want to know what you think of WoW or any of the WoW clones out there ( my idea FLAT)
EvE returns what you put in and unlike any other game the more you put in the more you get out

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#67 - 2012-10-01 05:45:31 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Tres Farmer wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:
This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism.
Gevlin wrote:
Join a corp that is active.
This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?

Creeps you out, doesn't it? Cool

PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from?

Lots of things on the forums interwebz do that, almost daily I feel like this at least once Ugh

http://youtu.be/UdI7RJr9ooA

FYP Blink
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#68 - 2012-10-01 05:50:01 UTC
PVE will be shallow in any game until humans invent Artificial Intelligence.

And then we need to discuss the ethics of locking AIs inside game universes.

Luckily EVE is an excellent MMO, and the level or human interaction goes very deep indeed. You can of course play the game avoiding almost all interaction, or assume a role that limits the ways that others interact with you.

My goals and challenges in the game now are organisational (CEO of a small wh pvp corp and alliance council member), and this rabbit hole is as deep as any I've seen.

.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#69 - 2012-10-01 08:00:43 UTC
Vulix wrote:
EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.

Planetary interaction blows.

Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother

I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?

Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time

Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot

There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP

Wormholes are a grind

Missions are a grind

Mining is a grind

Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath

etc

Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level.


Yea you are right. You are too good for this game. Go back to WoW.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-10-01 08:15:45 UTC
Vulix wrote:
Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.

Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time

Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot

There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP

All of these are wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#71 - 2012-10-01 08:26:00 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:
This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism.
Gevlin wrote:
Join a corp that is active.
This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? What?


You could make an argument that it's possible to make yourself sufficiently important to your EVE associates that it's not worth their while dicking you over.

Dickery of that sort seems to be more common amongst the good honest properly socialised denizens of hi-sec than amongst the basement-dwelling sociopaths of 0.0 because basically, you need to ensure that the rewards for someone dicking you over are always less than the loss from losing you as a comrade. In 0.0, you can make yourself much more valuable than you can in hi-sec, because corp-mates and alliance-mates rely on each other to a much greater degree.

Conversely, being an unpleasant, selfish, lazy, unhelpful, unsociable person in 0.0 will radically lower your perceived value even if you can fly a Titan.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-10-01 08:33:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
If you compare this game to Ultima Online, they both pursue similar game designs to provide players with things to do, but UO does it so much better. Why can't EVE do it well too?
For one, EVE isn't design around giving players things to do. It's designed around making players give themselves things to do. From this, it sounds like your problem is a classic theme park vs. sandbox issue.


I just react on this point, because i have played Ultima Online for many years, and i want to make clear that it's not at all a theme park mmo, it's a pure sandbox very comparable to EVE, and indeed you get back only what you put in it.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#73 - 2012-10-01 10:07:46 UTC
Guess I'm Shallow, Oh well ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Josef Djugashvilis
#74 - 2012-10-01 10:30:23 UTC
I have the opposite 'problem' with Eve.

There are so many things to get deeply involved in and to understand, that I almost wish CCP would stop adding content for a while so I can catch up!

There are no 'shallow' aspects of Eve. Anything you do, from the supposedly mundane, mining, missions running etc can be very involving. The market alone is an entire complex game in itself.

Mine alone in lo-sec, run missions in different ships with different fitting etc.

CCP provides the sandbox, what we do, or do not do in the sandbox is up to us.

The Ice Interdiction was a supreme example of players creating game content.

Plot the downfall of the Goons for example, that should be a deep and involving experience, enough for anyone.

Use your imagination and create your own content.

This is not a signature.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-10-01 10:31:28 UTC
you can drown in an inch of water.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Mme Pinkerton
#76 - 2012-10-01 10:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mme Pinkerton
Tippia wrote:
Vulix wrote:
I brought up the age thing to give some context to the type of player I am. However, people were taking that information and using it for a different purpose, i.e. discrediting my original post.
Yes, well… as someone who's been around for two years, you'd be expected to know how exploration works (especially if you're going to complain about it) and how the market differs from what pretty much all other games offer (especially if you're going to claim that it's same-old same-old).

How does the market differ from what other games offer?

I have been playing EVE for 4 years, have tried various styles of trading, spend a lot of time hanging out with people who do trading in EVE, have played WoW, RIFT and GW2 for comparison - and, quite frankly, I don't see it.

The way trading works in all of these games is basically identical and a person who knows how to do it in one will be able to successful in any of the others (take gevlon goblin if you need an example).

Especially the hallmarks of "sophisticated" trading in EVE - pre-patch speculation and manipulation - can be found 1:1 in WoW.

I read a WoW "gold guide" about a year ago as I was curious about how playing the AH differs from playing the market in EVE - turns out the major difference is that in WoW your currency is called gold rather than ISK, the actual trading strategies (speculation, buy out/relist, exploit daily/weekly cycles, ...) are the same.

What is "special" about the market in EVE?
- compartementalized into regions
- broker system
- buy orders
- margin trading

Of these margin trading does probably have the biggest impact on the way trading works, buy orders are nice to have but hardly unique (see GW2), the broker system doesn't have much of an impact (most people buy from the order with the best price anyways) and the different regions don't add much in complexity ("buy low - sell high" vs "buy low - ship it - sell high") and are comparable to the three auction houses in WoW (BMAH doesn't count).

So what is special about the way the market in EVE works?

An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#77 - 2012-10-01 10:57:01 UTC
Mme Pinkerton wrote:
So what is special about the way the market in EVE works?
For one, it's the game's engine — the nexus between the production and the destruction cycles. In and of itself, that's different from many (most, even?) games, which rather have a gather/obsolescence cycle that generates a different pattern of both supply and demand. For another, it's the nature of those driving factors: they're entirely player-driven, which leads to a very different psychology and dynamic in the market than if half of it is run by NPCs.

The trading is the same: buy low, sell high, anticipate supply and demand. The difference is the actual market where this trading takes place: the reasons why prices are low or high and why supply demand will swing the way they do. Neither pre-patch speculation or manipulation is particularly sophisticated, because those are so obvious. The fun part lies in doing the same in the face of the player-driven ebbs and flows and keeping in mind all the interdependencies between goods and the ripple-effects that changes cause.
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
#78 - 2012-10-01 10:57:44 UTC
Disagree with OP on the game being shallow.

I do agree that many of the game features should be much more interesting in terms of gameplay. CCP have the "big picture" right, but many of the core gameplay mechanics are in dire need of an overhaul (mining f.e.).
Shaco LaRusko
Veritas Theory
#79 - 2012-10-01 13:16:53 UTC
Vulix wrote:
EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.

Planetary interaction blows.

Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother

I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?

Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time

Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot

There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP

Wormholes are a grind

Missions are a grind

Mining is a grind

Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath

etc

Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level.


This may all be true and I feel like it is many times but let me tell you, the friends you make and those hero moments you have make it all worth it. I remember once a we were working on a TCU and an enemy fleet came in outnumbering us 3 to 1. We still managed to down thier TCU while taking out half their fleet. It took us almost 5 hours and it was just one intense moment after another. I remember we were calling for alliance mates to sneak in ammo at some point. Yes there is a lot of grind in game but what mmo doesnt. Eve isnt like the rest of the mmo's out there. You have to go look for the good times here and there are plenty to be had and they are far more rewarding than instance of any game ive ever played.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#80 - 2012-10-01 13:47:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vulix wrote:
I'm not sure why people keep nagging on my length of stay in New Eden.
Because you brought it up as an argument for… something. Experience, maybe?

Quote:
It's not like playing this game any longer or something would give my original post a sense of authority that magically makes it more valid.
Exactly. So why did you bring it up?

Quote:
The points I raised would be there whether I was a 1 day old player, or if I've been playing since 03
…and our counter-points is that the problem is how you choose to play it, and your expectations of what the game is supposed to provide you with. We don't feel it's shallow because we take the tools to build a deep game for ourselves. You do something else and thus find it shallow.


I dont know if what the OP says is valid or not, but I do know that the only person on these forums that knows how the OP played the game and to what level he/she played it would be the OP.

I understand taking up for a game that you may love and need to justify or quantify your time spent playing it.

To ASSume that the OP played the game different, or not as intended, or somehow inferior just because you dont agree with the OP's assesment of the game would be an ininjustice not only to OP but to yourself as well