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Ancillary Shield Booster
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Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-08-19 00:50:47 UTC
armor reps have always sucked unless you have some nifty DS mods

dont blame the ASB for making this more obvious

ban multiple ASBs

Boost armor reps

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#162 - 2012-08-19 05:09:03 UTC
The sheer amount of whining on this thread is hilarious, for a long time active tank has largely sucked for PVP.

It has been all about buffer tank for many years now.

ASB does not obsolete buffer tanking, it still packs the weaknesses of active tank.

They can be instantly alphaed, cap boosters reliance makes it only good for a short skirmish, but are useless in a prolonged fleet fight.


You never see ASB's used in fleet fights.

Once you run out of cap boosters, you're pretty much done for.

ASB's are what active tanking should be, it should excel in 1 vs 1 and small number situations.

Fitting ASB's take lots of fitting requirements.

Dual ASB fitting require a large amount of cpu which requires sacrificing slots for more fitting.

Buffer tank do and will continue to excel at large gang/fleet pvp.


Active tanks are the future of solo and small engagement PVP.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-08-19 08:27:48 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:

ASB's are what active tanking should be, it should excel in 1 vs 1 and small number situations.


This is actually sad, since instead of having useful shield buffer tanks / armour buffer tanks / shield active tanks (and only armour active tanks being quite bad) viable in 1v1 and small number situations, now it's ASB. The combat duration is prolonged, which is bad for 1v1 and small number situations since unless you blob (or bait/blob) you must wait for the boosters to run out.

What is actually good about this? There's less viable ships and fittings and, overall, 1v1 and very small gang is less viable.
inVictu5
Cruisers Crew
The Initiative.
#164 - 2012-09-12 00:13:06 UTC
chk out this guy with his uber armor tank. armor rigs, half the price of shield rigs. faction armor resists, a dime a dozen. shield faction mods arnt even affordable. Armor tankers trade tank for dps. Shield tankers trade tank for tackle. You put a heavily tanked abbadon next to a raven or rokh that cost twice as much. abaddon wins everytime.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2012-09-12 12:43:44 UTC
inVictu5 wrote:
chk out this guy with his uber armor tank. armor rigs, half the price of shield rigs. faction armor resists, a dime a dozen. shield faction mods arnt even affordable. Armor tankers trade tank for dps. Shield tankers trade tank for tackle. You put a heavily tanked abbadon next to a raven or rokh that cost twice as much. abaddon wins everytime.


If a Rokh can fit dual XL-ASB like Maelstroms, it would tear an Abaddon up every time.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#166 - 2012-09-12 12:56:05 UTC
The second to last dev blog mentions that 'devs are testing the powerful yet controversial ASBs'. So a betting man would say there is some sort of nerf incoming for winter.
Sevgei Ertekin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-09-14 18:27:57 UTC
Active tanks have always been viable for certain ships in solo/small gang situations. While the asb's are fun, they are a bit out of control. I'll use them, but not pretend they aren't a bit hilarious and probably a little broken.
SaltyandSweet
Oblivion Watch
HYDRA RELOADED
#168 - 2012-09-19 05:42:43 UTC
Cyclone, That is all. you just suck ass.

Im So Baller I Buy Plex Cuz im too lazy to do PVE!
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#169 - 2012-09-22 02:23:09 UTC
Cpt Branko wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:

ASB's are what active tanking should be, it should excel in 1 vs 1 and small number situations.


This is actually sad, since instead of having useful shield buffer tanks / armour buffer tanks / shield active tanks (and only armour active tanks being quite bad) viable in 1v1 and small number situations, now it's ASB. The combat duration is prolonged, which is bad for 1v1 and small number situations since unless you blob (or bait/blob) you must wait for the boosters to run out.

What is actually good about this? There's less viable ships and fittings and, overall, 1v1 and very small gang is less viable.



I don't do a lot of pvp so I'll ask this; what is it about pvp that people actually get fun from?

Is it the actual fight, when you are engaging with the enemy and trying to defeat them or to survive?

Or is it when the fight is over and you have either won or lost?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#170 - 2012-09-22 03:57:00 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Cpt Branko wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:

ASB's are what active tanking should be, it should excel in 1 vs 1 and small number situations.


This is actually sad, since instead of having useful shield buffer tanks / armour buffer tanks / shield active tanks (and only armour active tanks being quite bad) viable in 1v1 and small number situations, now it's ASB. The combat duration is prolonged, which is bad for 1v1 and small number situations since unless you blob (or bait/blob) you must wait for the boosters to run out.

What is actually good about this? There's less viable ships and fittings and, overall, 1v1 and very small gang is less viable.



I don't do a lot of pvp so I'll ask this; what is it about pvp that people actually get fun from?

Is it the actual fight, when you are engaging with the enemy and trying to defeat them or to survive?

Or is it when the fight is over and you have either won or lost?

The fight, of course. Overtanking provided by ASB make fights much less appealing since you no longer can fully capitalize piloting errors of the opponents and have less options in general. Simply shooting something for the sake of shooting is NOT fun (check out POSes), the fun comes from actions. ASBs - just like any other form of overtanking - make PvP much more static, there can not be any delusions about it.

ASBs are like WW1 with tedious trench shooting. Conventional non-overtanked boosters/reppairer are more like WW2 with all these ways to outmaneuver and outsmart the other side.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#171 - 2012-09-26 12:54:31 UTC
I personal enjoy the new ASB, and i totally disagree that it have distroyed solo PVP, it has actually boosted solo PVP.

Without a external boost, you now have a change to go up against 5-6 people solo, and have a fun fight.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#172 - 2012-09-26 13:12:01 UTC
Ynot Eyob wrote:
I personal enjoy the new ASB, and i totally disagree that it have distroyed solo PVP, it has actually boosted solo PVP.

Without a external boost, you now have a change to go up against 5-6 people solo, and have a fun fight.


I haven't tried ASB myself, but since ASB I see people fitted with ASB engaging ships or fleets they would never had engaged before ASB. But today ASB makes it possible to try crazy things. On the other hand it doesn't mean that they win all the time, which means ASB is balanced. I really enjoy that people are more actively going for PVP now.

By the way, you can easily counter ASB today, just to name a few:

  1. Blob... the blob always win, and since ASB ships have no buffer they easily pop.
  2. Durable Tank: Most ASB setups do not much damage... if you can speed tank, active tank or passive tank them until they run out of boosters... then you have usually won.
  3. Neutralizer: Most ASB setups are very bad with regards to cap recharge. Once neutralized all their modules (except for ASB) stop working very fast. This gives you at least the option to disengage whenever it gets necessary.

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#173 - 2012-09-26 18:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Meditril wrote:
Ynot Eyob wrote:
I personal enjoy the new ASB, and i totally disagree that it have distroyed solo PVP, it has actually boosted solo PVP.

Without a external boost, you now have a change to go up against 5-6 people solo, and have a fun fight.


I haven't tried ASB myself, but since ASB I see people fitted with ASB engaging ships or fleets they would never had engaged before ASB. But today ASB makes it possible to try crazy things. On the other hand it doesn't mean that they win all the time, which means ASB is balanced. I really enjoy that people are more actively going for PVP now.

By the way, you can easily counter ASB today, just to name a few:

  1. Blob... the blob always win, and since ASB ships have no buffer they easily pop.
  2. Durable Tank: Most ASB setups do not much damage... if you can speed tank, active tank or passive tank them until they run out of boosters... then you have usually won.
  3. Neutralizer: Most ASB setups are very bad with regards to cap recharge. Once neutralized all their modules (except for ASB) stop working very fast. This gives you at least the option to disengage whenever it gets necessary.



None of those are counters. Blobs counter every kind of tanking...ASBs are not inordinately hard to fit relative to other tanking mods, there is no notable decrease in DPS by using an ASB fit.

Neuts have no more of an effect on ASB ships than they do on any other ship.
Quote:

Active tanks have always been viable for certain ships in solo/small gang situations. While the asb's are fun, they are a bit out of control. I'll use them, but not pretend they aren't a bit hilarious and probably a little broken.


The primary problem with active tanks has always been neuts...Which, because they are the only useful utility hislot mod in most circumstances, are everywhere. This is a problem with neuts (or, with utility hislot modules), not with active reps.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-09-27 14:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:

I don't do a lot of pvp so I'll ask this; what is it about pvp that people actually get fun from?

Is it the actual fight, when you are engaging with the enemy and trying to defeat them or to survive?

Or is it when the fight is over and you have either won or lost?

for me real fun is:
1. i see opportunity for pvp
2. i see opponent for pvp and he is strong (the stronger he is the more difficult it become for me to engage :D )
3. i gather all my mind resources to start attack
4. ...
5. I win? That's crazy! Lol

That be said i'm almost indifferent to CTAs, gang roams and gate camps. My fun from PVP is described process when i attack and win. I don't have this fun when we just overblob and kill someone or when someone overblobs and kills me.

And what about active armor tank. I see it is still works in 1vs1 and small size pvp.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#175 - 2012-09-28 19:56:51 UTC
I see a lot of people using Gallente ships that shield tank in their arguments... Blasters are why they shield tank, armored blaster ships is a colossal game design failure for CCP.

The Caldari should have been Armor and Gallente should have been shield.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-09-30 14:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Oblong Chunk wrote:
ma perke wrote:
short sighted carebares...

if a 250M cynabal can not kill vexor&rupture why should he fly it?! This ASB concept is wrong, because ratio between dps/tank is in favor of tank! Lets get dinosaurs now??


The cynabal should be able to kite them for the 1 minute it takes to use all the boosters, and then for the 10 seconds it takes to kill the thingy

Edit: If you can't kite a ruppy in a cynabal, please die



The cynabal can also fit one large ASB instead of another LSE and 1 cpu upgrade in lows, without boosters and whatnot the single large ASB will give it almost 3 times the hp of a single LSE+keeps a hell of dps at very decent ranges.
Why don't you fit one in your Cynabal?

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#177 - 2012-09-30 14:48:20 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
I see a lot of people using Gallente ships that shield tank in their arguments... Blasters are why they shield tank, armored blaster ships is a colossal game design failure for CCP.

The Caldari should have been Armor and Gallente should have been shield.


THIS !!

CCP listen to "dis" man !! NAO !!

brb
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2012-09-30 16:14:19 UTC
I see the same arguments about how ASBs help solo pvp because you engage targets you normally wouldn't try to engage. But my perspective as someone who does enjoy solo pvp, who doesn't use ASBs, I don't want to engage anything that has a shield tank in fear that it has ASBs.

Maybe I'm a little biased because I only fly blaster boats I have to commit with, but it seems every day I find a new ship with an ASB fit that tears me up.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#179 - 2012-09-30 23:23:12 UTC
Ctzn Snips wrote:
I see the same arguments about how ASBs help solo pvp because you engage targets you normally wouldn't try to engage. But my perspective as someone who does enjoy solo pvp, who doesn't use ASBs, I don't want to engage anything that has a shield tank in fear that it has ASBs.

Maybe I'm a little biased because I only fly blaster boats I have to commit with, but it seems every day I find a new ship with an ASB fit that tears me up.


Do you armor tank your blaster boats?
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-10-01 04:33:32 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Ctzn Snips wrote:
I see the same arguments about how ASBs help solo pvp because you engage targets you normally wouldn't try to engage. But my perspective as someone who does enjoy solo pvp, who doesn't use ASBs, I don't want to engage anything that has a shield tank in fear that it has ASBs.

Maybe I'm a little biased because I only fly blaster boats I have to commit with, but it seems every day I find a new ship with an ASB fit that tears me up.


Do you armor tank your blaster boats?


Well if I shield fit them I'd be fitting ASBs. Does that answer your question?