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Faster flying Mackinaw for mining missions?
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2012-09-30 02:42:56 UTC
I've started flying mining missions in my Mackinaw. Tank-wise it's fine with 5xMedium T2 drones. I even flew a storyline combat mission in it, and pwned the rats, although I did drop to 65% or so shield.

But warp-in for a mining mission is usually 20-28 km from the farthest asteroid, and often the nearest asteroid is 16-18 km away, so I need to move closer. My Mackinaw does 100 m/s with maxed Navigation skill.

What are my options for getting within range of the roids faster?

Last year, before the mining changes, I tried fitting AB to a Hulk. Didn't work at all. I think it's Powergrid that's massively problematic.

But what about fitting a PG boosting module to make it possible? My current Mack fit is 1xDCU2 and 2xMLU2, but I don't need the MLUs for mining missions at all, and I don't have much use for the DCU either, since the mining mission rats are easy to tank.

I've got a couple of tanking rigs, which aren't very useful either. What about a combination of LOW slot modules and RIGs to boost overall flight speed? I realize that if I fit more than 2 speed improving modules I'll get hit by the stacking penalty, so I think maybe the best is to have RIGs to boost overall speed, and use LOW slots to make it posible to fit a 10 MN AB, either meta or T2. Then see how much tank I can get after that's done.

Suggestions or ideas?
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-09-30 02:54:56 UTC
Obtain alt... have alt warp in and warp to alt... or if they are in deadspace pockets(been a while since i did a mining mission) use a mining battleship. Although if you have to stick to your mack try an undersized deadspace mwd(gist i believe) c types are only 12 mil i believe it doesnt add much but i believe at all 5s its another 46 km/s. i cant even really get a deadspace 10mn afterburner to fit... although for some reason i dont think my version of pyfa is up to date.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-09-30 03:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Salpad wrote:
Last year, before the mining changes, I tried fitting AB to a Hulk. Didn't work at all. I think it's Powergrid that's massively problematic.

But what about fitting a PG boosting module to make it possible?


Two Navy MAPCs will get you two MSMIIs plus a named AB. Three T2 MAPCs will get you the same with 14.75 grid to spare for whatever tank you want to cram on.

Salpad wrote:
I've got a couple of tanking rigs, which aren't very useful either. What about a combination of LOW slot modules and RIGs to boost overall flight speed? I realize that if I fit more than 2 speed improving modules I'll get hit by the stacking penalty, so I think maybe the best is to have RIGs to boost overall speed, and use LOW slots to make it posible to fit a 10 MN AB, either meta or T2. Then see how much tank I can get after that's done.

Suggestions or ideas?


Without knowing anything about mining missions it's hard to gauge the tank, but five minutes in EFT gave this:


[Mackinaw, lolfast]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Edit: facepalm for putting MSMs on there in the first place. There are no crystals for mission ores, are there? Make that T1 strip miners; there's no saving on PG so no other changes are needed/available.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#4 - 2012-09-30 03:03:37 UTC
I have 2 RIG slots and 3 LOW slots to play with, and don't need my MID slots much for tank.

Also, it's all about being lazy. Having a alt warp in to make bookmarks. That's work. I want a solution that minimized work, and it seems to me that ramping up m/s, somehow, serves that purpose.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2012-09-30 03:06:54 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Without knowing anything about mining missions it's hard to gauge the tank, but five minutes in EFT gave this:


Well, I find it easier to use T1 strippers for mining missions, because you have to suck exotic kinds of ore, and while they all correspond to conventional kinds of ore, I'm too lazy to switch crystals, and it's not as if yield is important. At least for the level 3 missions I fly, or amounts are between 4k m3 and 9k m3.

I'll try out something like your fit, and report back tomorrow.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#6 - 2012-09-30 03:08:23 UTC
I know that an AB acts on the mass of the ship, somehow. Are there rigs or modules to reduce effective mass? My guess is the answer is no, but I'm not 100% sure.
Szandor LaVey
Ordo Arymanis
#7 - 2012-09-30 10:57:27 UTC
Nanofiber Structures:
T2 -> Speed +9.4%
Matarella
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#8 - 2012-09-30 10:58:32 UTC
Salpad wrote:
I know that an AB acts on the mass of the ship, somehow. Are there rigs or modules to reduce effective mass? My guess is the answer is no, but I'm not 100% sure.

there are none indeed.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#9 - 2012-09-30 15:34:29 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Without knowing anything about mining missions it's hard to gauge the tank, but five minutes in EFT gave this:


[Mackinaw, lolfast]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Edit: facepalm for putting MSMs on there in the first place. There are no crystals for mission ores, are there? Make that T1 strip miners; there's no saving on PG so no other changes are needed/available.


All mission ores are the equivalents of "real" belt ores, in terms of volume, and they also appear similar, e.g. there's one that looks like Veldspar, one that looks like Omber, one that looks like Pyroxeres. I think maybe the crystals will work on those too, but rather than try, I've opted for just using T1 strippers, because I think that's more flexible for missions. Also it's nice that I can turn the strippers on and off repeatedly, when I want to squeeze out the last ore, when I'm nearly done sucking (also helps when not having a Survey Scanner fitted[1]), without having to worry about wearing out the crystals.

[1] Some of the mission advice on-screen suggests fitting a Survey Scanner, in order to be able to find the asteroids, but I've never found that to be necessary. Flying level 3 misisons anyway.

As for your fit, I fitted a Mackinaw rather like your suggestion, and it does 215 m/s with the T2 AB turned on, compared to 100 m/s for a vanilla Mackinaw. I had been hoping for a bit more speed, 250 or 280 m/s, especially since I have all relevant skillz trained to 5, but maybe the Mackinaw is at the upper end of the mass bracket for 10MN...
Lili Lu
#10 - 2012-09-30 16:58:43 UTC
Use a Skiff.

It moves a lot faster. And iirc there is no mining advantage built into the ship bonuses between the skiff and the mack as there is with the hulk. And even the cargo capacity advantage is irrelevant in this situation as you should just have a hauler on an alt do the hauling. The Skiff still holds plenty of ore to allow a hauler plenty of time to transport what you mine.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#11 - 2012-09-30 17:07:40 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Use a Skiff.

It moves a lot faster. And iirc there is no mining advantage built into the ship bonuses between the skiff and the mack as there is with the hulk. And even the cargo capacity advantage is irrelevant in this situation as you should just have a hauler on an alt do the hauling. The Skiff still holds plenty of ore to allow a hauler plenty of time to transport what you mine.


No.

First of all, in terms of sucking speed, the greater number of strippers is better, because sometimes you have to suck ore out of a large number of tiny roids, such as 6 or 8. There, a Skiff with 1 stripper would need twice as much time as a Mackinaw with 2 strippers, and a Hulk would be able to do it even faster.

Secondly, at least one level 3 mining mission requires me to haul home 9000 m3 of ore. In a Mackinaw, I can do that in one go, so it's easier, lazier, more friendly to semi-AFK. That makes the Mackinaw superior to the Skiff and the Hulk.

You are correct that in principle, the Mackinaw and the Skiff sucks equally fast, only the Hulk has the bonus. But in reality, the Mackinaw sucks faster than the Skiff, because it can parallel-process 2 roids at a time.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-09-30 18:18:57 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Use a Skiff.

It moves a lot faster. And iirc there is no mining advantage built into the ship bonuses between the skiff and the mack as there is with the hulk. And even the cargo capacity advantage is irrelevant in this situation as you should just have a hauler on an alt do the hauling. The Skiff still holds plenty of ore to allow a hauler plenty of time to transport what you mine.


No.

First of all, in terms of sucking speed, the greater number of strippers is better, because sometimes you have to suck ore out of a large number of tiny roids, such as 6 or 8. There, a Skiff with 1 stripper would need twice as much time as a Mackinaw with 2 strippers, and a Hulk would be able to do it even faster.

Secondly, at least one level 3 mining mission requires me to haul home 9000 m3 of ore. In a Mackinaw, I can do that in one go, so it's easier, lazier, more friendly to semi-AFK. That makes the Mackinaw superior to the Skiff and the Hulk.

You are correct that in principle, the Mackinaw and the Skiff sucks equally fast, only the Hulk has the bonus. But in reality, the Mackinaw sucks faster than the Skiff, because it can parallel-process 2 roids at a time.


Take a look at the skiff again:

[Skiff, Mining]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Cap Recharger II

Strip Miner I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

It moves at 743m/s - nearly 3 times as fast as the mackinaw can. As for the mackinaw sucking roids faster, you are aware that you can stop mining a rock partway through, right? And for the 1 mission that does 9k m3, keep the mackinaw for just that mission then.

The best I can manage with the mack is this:
[Mackinaw, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN Afterburner II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

which still needs a 2% pg implant, and moves at a staggering 238m/s. Note again, 238m/s, vs. the skiff's 743m/s.

Of course, the other option is to extend the range on the mining barge's lasers. The standard range on the strip miners is 15km. Putting an orca in space with the t2 links (no mindlink) pushes the range out to 22.3km with max skills. Adding the mindlink puts that out to 25.9km. Or using the low-grade harvester implants (slot 1-5+omega) pushes the range out to 20.1km by itself, 29.8 with the implants and orca links (no mindlink), and 34.7km with the mindlink added. Note, the implant set would cost you between 2 and 4 bil, a mining mindlink about 1 bil, and an orca with the full setup would be about another 800mil or so. Added to this, a skiff/mackinaw with the orca running almost doubles the mining output - 886m3/min with no links, 1506m3/min with them.

-Arazel