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ECM is Killing Solo PvP
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Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#81 - 2012-09-29 17:23:54 UTC
I have no problems getting solo fights. Well, I didn't before the last cashout in Amarr vs Minmatar FW front. Now all the Amarr jumped ship so it's hard to find *any* fights, but regardless solo is still very much alive and well.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Hemmo Paskiainen
#82 - 2012-09-29 17:34:07 UTC
Ppl should rly stop cryi g about ecm. Its not over powerd. Its xhance based and thats also bsed on range. Rly easy to counter if you u derstands it. Try to get a jam at 90-100km its rly hard. If you get counterd and crying about falcon as so'o pvpr your not soloing. But fighti g 1 vs 2 and butthurt about your fail blobbi g. You as maelpilot are butthurt because you got outclassed. Without the falcon you prolly wouldnt so your kinda very hipocritical. Stop the whining and bring a second ship aswell..

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
DFA200
Hard vs Soft
#83 - 2012-09-29 17:59:54 UTC
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-09-29 19:05:27 UTC
DFA200 wrote:
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.


Yes, when it does get nerfed the whine will be reversed, not that I don't enjoy being in fleets where we have ecm superiority... but I won't miss it if it was gone

I had a nice talk with a friend the other day about ecm, if said I could just get a falcon alt too for solo basicly :3 but I really do prefere the fights where the guy you killed says gf in local :)

There is a reason we call it dishonour drones when bringing ecm drones, but sometimes a gank is fun too where the guy you killed gets mad and yells at you :)

Just like killing hulks before the buff, doing it for the lols,

I understand it from both sides of the spectrum, I am no better than everyone else when I am in fleets with falcons regulary, yet call the people who perma jam me when I am flying solo for fags :) so being on both sides of it.... the counter needs to be buffed or ecm needs to be nerfed... But really CCP needs to talk with us all about the plans so we can come with input soon

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Beachura
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-09-29 19:17:27 UTC
What? have you complete forgotten that falcons are 200 million isk ships with no tank apart from their ECM, I miss a single jam and goodbye. ECM is perfectly balanced, just like cloaking.
Beachura
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-09-29 19:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Beachura
Quote:
DFA200 wrote:
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.



EDIT: removed, not biting the troll.
Beachura
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-09-29 19:24:33 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
DFA200 wrote:
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.


Yes, when it does get nerfed the whine will be reversed, not that I don't enjoy being in fleets where we have ecm superiority... but I won't miss it if it was gone

I had a nice talk with a friend the other day about ecm, if said I could just get a falcon alt too for solo basicly :3 but I really do prefere the fights where the guy you killed says gf in local :)

There is a reason we call it dishonour drones when bringing ecm drones, but sometimes a gank is fun too where the guy you killed gets mad and yells at you :)

Just like killing hulks before the buff, doing it for the lols,

I understand it from both sides of the spectrum, I am no better than everyone else when I am in fleets with falcons regulary, yet call the people who perma jam me when I am flying solo for fags :) so being on both sides of it.... the counter needs to be buffed or ecm needs to be nerfed... But really CCP needs to talk with us all about the plans so we can come with input soon


ECM has been weakened already and will not be weakened again.
DFA200
Hard vs Soft
#88 - 2012-09-29 19:43:40 UTC
Beachura wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
DFA200 wrote:
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.


Yes, when it does get nerfed the whine will be reversed, not that I don't enjoy being in fleets where we have ecm superiority... but I won't miss it if it was gone

I had a nice talk with a friend the other day about ecm, if said I could just get a falcon alt too for solo basicly :3 but I really do prefere the fights where the guy you killed says gf in local :)

There is a reason we call it dishonour drones when bringing ecm drones, but sometimes a gank is fun too where the guy you killed gets mad and yells at you :)

Just like killing hulks before the buff, doing it for the lols,

I understand it from both sides of the spectrum, I am no better than everyone else when I am in fleets with falcons regulary, yet call the people who perma jam me when I am flying solo for fags :) so being on both sides of it.... the counter needs to be buffed or ecm needs to be nerfed... But really CCP needs to talk with us all about the plans so we can come with input soon


ECM has been weakened already and will not be weakened again.


It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#89 - 2012-09-30 10:47:19 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:


Sure, why not gimp your fit in order to account for a ship that can probably jam you even with counter-ECCM fit?


Where have I heard this argument before? Ahh yes, hulk pilots complaining "why should I gimp my fit and get less than optimal m3/cycle just so some suicide ganker can come along with a bigger ship and kill me anyway"...

At the end of the day no one is forcing you to fight. Stay docked, if the universe is too scary for you. Or better yet, train up ECM skills to level V and go dish out the same medicine. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing that.
Pipa Porto
#90 - 2012-09-30 10:50:23 UTC
DFA200 wrote:
It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.


Range matters. It matters quite a lot for a ship that has little to no tank.

The ECM Formula was nerfed (you're much more likely to miss a jam) and ECM ranges were nerfed (you have to be much closer).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#91 - 2012-09-30 10:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
DFA200 wrote:


It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.


Cry me a river. Do you have any idea just how easy it is to pop a falcon, a scorpion, or any other ECM boat? ECM capability is exchanged for both tank AND dps. So if that jamming ship DOESN'T jam you, he's pretty much dead. The other day my Falcon got jumped by 2 frigates and 2 cruisers. I jammed all 4 of them and got away. But I have level V recon skill, and level V signal dispersion skill. So you could scream till you're blue in the face that this proves that ECM is overpowered - what I don't mention is I got away in structure... it was a very, very close thing. Had I NOT jammed even one of them, I would be dead. So much for my 200+M ship/fit and months of training. ECM ships are WEAK.

Now if you're complaining about people fitting ECM modules on regular ships, their jam strength must suck, meaning you should easily survive most jam cycles with ECCM. "But it gimps my fit!" Yeah, just as much as he gimped his by putting an ECM module in his mids that will be useless against you. If you don't meet enough people using ECM to justify changing your fit - why are you complaining at all? You cannot expect to win every single fight.
Doyey3731
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2012-09-30 11:15:33 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
DFA200 wrote:


It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.


Cry me a river. Do you have any idea just how easy it is to pop a falcon, a scorpion, or any other ECM boat? ECM capability is exchanged for both tank AND dps. So if that jamming ship DOESN'T jam you, he's pretty much dead. The other day my Falcon got jumped by 2 frigates and 2 cruisers. I jammed all 4 of them and got away. But I have level V recon skill, and level V signal dispersion skill. So you could scream till you're blue in the face that this proves that ECM is overpowered - what I don't mention is I got away in structure... it was a very, very close thing. Had I NOT jammed even one of them, I would be dead. So much for my 200+M ship/fit and months of training. ECM ships are WEAK.

Now if you're complaining about people fitting ECM modules on regular ships, their jam strength must suck, meaning you should easily survive most jam cycles with ECCM. "But it gimps my fit!" Yeah, just as much as he gimped his by putting an ECM module in his mids that will be useless against you. If you don't meet enough people using ECM to justify changing your fit - why are you complaining at all? You cannot expect to win every single fight.


A 100k rifter can take down a 100m Tornado with the same argument.

If you're going up against 4 ships, you should count yourself lucky you got out in structure, no matter what you're in. The fact that you did get away kind of does prove that they are overpowered. How many other ships would have gotten away?

Anything big enough to kill you solo wont be able to lock you fast even if you do miss a jam for you to be worries too much. I think it was 15 seconds for me to lock a Rook the other day. So I could probably get 1-2 volleys off at most even if he did miss a jam.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#93 - 2012-09-30 12:11:02 UTC
highonpop wrote:
ECCM?

Roll


nah, why would you want to fit your ship to counter ECM? Just complain in the GD section until CCP nerfs what you refuse to adapt to...Roll


edit:

nvm, i Just realized OP is -A-c , he probably doesnt even understand what I said.


Following that logic I better fill the lows of my myrmidon with tracking enchancers + warp core stabs and it's mids with ECCM and fill my drone bay with ECM drones and lastly my highs with neuts, then I'll be prepared for all recons and I can finally solo pvp.

Wait...

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#94 - 2012-09-30 12:14:08 UTC
Oh no it's this thread again

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#95 - 2012-09-30 12:27:37 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
DFA200 wrote:


It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.


Cry me a river. Do you have any idea just how easy it is to pop a falcon, a scorpion, or any other ECM boat? ECM capability is exchanged for both tank AND dps. So if that jamming ship DOESN'T jam you, he's pretty much dead. The other day my Falcon got jumped by 2 frigates and 2 cruisers. I jammed all 4 of them and got away. But I have level V recon skill, and level V signal dispersion skill. So you could scream till you're blue in the face that this proves that ECM is overpowered - what I don't mention is I got away in structure... it was a very, very close thing. Had I NOT jammed even one of them, I would be dead. So much for my 200+M ship/fit and months of training. ECM ships are WEAK.

Now if you're complaining about people fitting ECM modules on regular ships, their jam strength must suck, meaning you should easily survive most jam cycles with ECCM. "But it gimps my fit!" Yeah, just as much as he gimped his by putting an ECM module in his mids that will be useless against you. If you don't meet enough people using ECM to justify changing your fit - why are you complaining at all? You cannot expect to win every single fight.


If you're flying the falcon right then nothing should target you, the argument is that ECM boats are killing solo pvp, which is true a Falcon should by all means render most ships useless, completely, there's no real counter, yes you could fit ECCM but that gimps your fit, and most people would rather fight at their full capacity than gimp their fits in fear of one type of ship. I think the main reason that people hate falcons is that they really do make a ship useless, Arazu's can damp but you can simply move closer and force them to either fight close or warp off, or you can change targets and try to kill the tackle or take down another ship with you. Curses can neut you out, but you can still do dps with certain weapon types and drones, huggins can target paint but let's face it, it doesn't make THAT much difference to alot of ships. Falcons stop the player from engaging in combat, they can't do damage all they can do is try to burn away or hope that something goes wrong.

Honestly, I'd prefer to be blobbed with no hope of escaping than be jumped on by a falcon and another ship, because atleast I can do SOMETHING to alter the outcome.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Doyey3731
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2012-09-30 12:39:50 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
[quote=Ptraci][quote=DFA200]


Honestly, I'd prefer to be blobbed with no hope of escaping than be jumped on by a falcon and another ship, because atleast I can do SOMETHING to alter the outcome.


100% this!!
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-09-30 12:51:34 UTC
The argument that ECM ships have no tank is bad also... you could just fit some lol... it's no different from your demand that people should fit ECCM.

I think perhaps ecm should have a much shorter optimal range... and a much longer fall off, 20km optimal? 90 km fall off or whatever

The paper thin argument doesn't work when the falcon is also able to jam most ships reliably from 50-100 km where most ships (unless sniper ship) can touch them

If the jamming duration was put in line I think the range would be fine... and perhaps falcons should be changed a little also

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-09-30 13:17:50 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
The argument that ECM ships have no tank is bad also... you could just fit some lol... it's no different from your demand that people should fit ECCM.


You haven't actually flown ECM ships have you?

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Gun Gal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-09-30 13:32:34 UTC
Wow, the tears still flowing.
Ecm is not overpowered, there's just alot of vocal stupid people out there.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#100 - 2012-09-30 13:36:56 UTC
ECM was never meant to be profitable...