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Eve Online - Retribution - Winter Expansion announced
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Eternal Error
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-09-30 00:38:36 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You just have to ignore Andski. He thinks suicide ganking is all high sec PvP should be and if anything in the game changes or does not cater to his play style, he deems it broken and or worthless. Put him on block and never regret it.


Suicide ganking is literally the only PvP left in hisec other than RvB "no-pod-honoure-fights" and the apparent solution to this is to do literally everything possible short of disabling aggression in hisec outright to minimize suicide ganking and painting it as "more PvP opportunities."


So why aren't you in lowsec or null, if you're so desperate for PVP? Or does it bother you when your targets can fight back?

If there's anything I hate more than a pirate, it's a whiny pirate. HTFU.


This just in: targets in highsec can't fight back. Also, I'm pretty sure Andski IS in nullsec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-09-30 00:43:55 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
So why aren't you in lowsec or null, if you're so desperate for PVP?


This is what's killing EVE, that "PvP is for low/null, not hisec" mentality. Also, perhaps you're not aware, but I am in nullsec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-09-30 00:47:41 UTC
Andski wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
So why aren't you in lowsec or null, if you're so desperate for PVP?


This is what's killing EVE, that "PvP is for low/null, not hisec" mentality. Also, perhaps you're not aware, but I am in nullsec.


So why are you complaining about highsec? What does it matter to you?
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-09-30 00:51:54 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
This just in: targets in highsec can't fight back. Also, I'm pretty sure Andski IS in nullsec.


So you can fit freighters and mining barges with guns now? When did this happen?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-09-30 00:51:59 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Andski wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
So why aren't you in lowsec or null, if you're so desperate for PVP?


This is what's killing EVE, that "PvP is for low/null, not hisec" mentality. Also, perhaps you're not aware, but I am in nullsec.


So why are you complaining about highsec? What does it matter to you?


Because hisec isn't an isolated shard.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-09-30 00:53:15 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
So you can fit freighters and mining barges with guns now? When did this happen?


Freighters and mining barges are not the only targets in hisec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#67 - 2012-09-30 01:04:31 UTC
I like how the expansion advertises crimewatch as "Finally criminality will have consequences!" that's a really great way of saying that you're officially not allowed to kill people in highsec anymore.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-09-30 01:05:59 UTC
Andski wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
So you can fit freighters and mining barges with guns now? When did this happen?


Freighters and mining barges are not the only targets in hisec.


What other ships are the target of ganks to nearly the same degree as barges and freighters? Did I miss a "Osprey-geddon" or "Hurricane-geddon"? Let's face it: gankers target freighters and barges because they're easy kills, they rarely bring angry fleets in retaliation, and they don't fight back. "Good PVP" is a BS reason because there's precious little PVP to it. It's just griefing, pure and simple. And when CCP finally takes action to tone it down, the griefers have the sack to come on the boards and whine about it!

These crimewatch changes are going to be delicious. Let's see how many brave, devil-may-care pirates continue in the trade when there's a real risk of armed response!
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#69 - 2012-09-30 01:26:02 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
These crimewatch changes are going to be delicious. Let's see how many brave, devil-may-care pirates continue in the trade when there's a real risk of armed response!

OH NO SOMEONE BATPHONED IN THE NPC CORP FORUM WARRIOR ALT SQUAD

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-09-30 01:34:19 UTC
barges and freighters have been ganked because they were easy to find and offer a nice reward (during hulkageddon)

other ships that are frequently ganked are small ships transporting pricy goods (remember that 21b cruiser(?) a few days ago ? ) travelling trade routes, gettting scanned and killed. also pimped mission runner ships with active tank, but these are harder to find, especially since CCP nerfed agent quality

none of this will change with the new crimewatch system which is a good thing. the life of people with a low sec status and a bounty on their head will surely change, but thats a logical and good thing, producing some actual pvp in highsec, same with canflippers, ninja salvagers and other scum, their tricks will still work, but it will be harder for them to grief newbies and stupid players. delicious tears incoming
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-09-30 01:41:04 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
These crimewatch changes are going to be delicious. Let's see how many brave, devil-may-care pirates continue in the trade when there's a real risk of armed response!

OH NO SOMEONE BATPHONED IN THE NPC CORP FORUM WARRIOR ALT SQUAD


...says the guy posting from a 2-month-old hisec forum alt.
Creedling
#72 - 2012-09-30 01:52:50 UTC
Upset to see that they didn't listen to the community outcry over the new Minmatar Destroyer. It really is an awful model and needs to be completely reworked.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#73 - 2012-09-30 01:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ludi Burek
What I want to know about the bounty system and haven't been able to find useful info besides omg you can put bounty on everyone! Anyone, everyone omg!

but

Can those people with bounties be engaged in high sec by people? I mean wtf is the point if you let's say put bounties on some assholes in npc corps and normal high sec rules continue to apply? As in they have positive sec status.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#74 - 2012-09-30 02:00:13 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
Can those people with bounties be engaged in high sec by people? I mean wtf is the point if you let's say put bounties on some assholes in npc corps and normal high sec rules continue to apply? As in they have positive sec status.

I, too, would like to know this. I have a feeling, though, that normal aggression rules will apply and you may have war dec the victim.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#75 - 2012-09-30 02:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryunosuke Kusanagi
@andski

from what I gathered from your posts, you want Hi-sec pvp, but without the consequences, ie. Low/Null-sec pvp in hisec. That is not what High Security systems are about, Hi-sec is about being SAFER, not TOTALLY SAFE. These changes are not about being safe, it is about having Retribution in highsec systems. Yes you can have retribution in low/null-sec, but, in highsec, the choices for retribution is VERY VERY limited, short of wardecs. This new system, from what I have read, actually opens up PvP in Highsec.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#76 - 2012-09-30 02:40:14 UTC
Will EVE be playable again, after this patch?

See, I'm not hard to please.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Khira Kitamatsu
#77 - 2012-09-30 02:54:15 UTC
The outline for the new Amarr dessi is not impressive. It is a boxy looking Coercer. Come on CCP can't you create something new - rather than rehashing something all ready in game. Makes me feel like I am playing WoW. They always take old models and just tweak them and add different color. Can you not be better than Blizzard?

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-09-30 03:45:30 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
What I want to know about the bounty system and haven't been able to find useful info besides omg you can put bounty on everyone! Anyone, everyone omg!

but

Can those people with bounties be engaged in high sec by people? I mean wtf is the point if you let's say put bounties on some assholes in npc corps and normal high sec rules continue to apply? As in they have positive sec status.


Was wondering that myself. If bounties can be placed on postive sec characters in NPC corps, it means hauler/indy alts can now be hunted with impunity.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#79 - 2012-09-30 04:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
@andski

from what I gathered from your posts, you want Hi-sec pvp, but without the consequences, ie. Low/Null-sec pvp in hisec. That is not what High Security systems are about, Hi-sec is about being SAFER, not TOTALLY SAFE. These changes are not about being safe, it is about having Retribution in highsec systems. Yes you can have retribution in low/null-sec, but, in highsec, the choices for retribution is VERY VERY limited, short of wardecs. This new system, from what I have read, actually opens up PvP in Highsec.


What this system will do is give can thieves aggression timers to everyone in the universe. This isn't retribution; this is absurdity. Flagging the thieves to the owning corporation is retribution, and that's what we have now. What we'll get is a stealth nerf to suicide-ganking by giving people who scoop gank loot the practical equivalent of a GCC.

As was expected, wars have been gutted, barges have been buffed, and now CCP is finally removing stealing and ganking as professions to complete the trifecta of high-sec pvp nerfs that armchair commando asteroid warriors have begged for for so long. Now we just sit back and wait for the veritable millions of new subscribers to start pouring in. That, or watch the average player count finally dip to pre-2007 levels.

As far as the bounty thing goes, I think it's a good change, but you guys have to remember that it's purely cosmetic. Sure, you'll probably be able to tie bounties to loss values in a fashion similar to FW, but that doesn't mean that anyone with a bounty will suddenly become fair game. Standard aggression rules will still apply, so you can look forward to the weekend crew putting down their strip miners and doing some old-fashioned Boba Fett RP via traditional gameplay mechanics such as wars (lol) and ganking (lmao).

I'm sure that with these "new" features, the hordes of high-sec bears will also finally venture out into low-sec to "experiment with the pvps" since they'll be willing to buy/use pvp gear due to their now-uninterrupted and guaranteed risk-free high-sec income streams. Right?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#80 - 2012-09-30 04:13:12 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
barges and freighters have been ganked because they were easy to find and offer a nice reward (during hulkageddon)

other ships that are frequently ganked are small ships transporting pricy goods (remember that 21b cruiser(?) a few days ago ? ) travelling trade routes, gettting scanned and killed. also pimped mission runner ships with active tank, but these are harder to find, especially since CCP nerfed agent quality

none of this will change with the new crimewatch system which is a good thing. the life of people with a low sec status and a bounty on their head will surely change, but thats a logical and good thing, producing some actual pvp in highsec, same with canflippers, ninja salvagers and other scum, their tricks will still work, but it will be harder for them to grief newbies and stupid players. delicious tears incoming


What is wrong with killing stupid players? Isn't that how new players learn - making mistakes and losing ships? If anything, it mission baiting should be made easier, not extinct.

Also, if Crimewatch goes through -
Player wrecks (as opposed to NPC wrecks) should be automatically blue.

This is so wrecks destroyed in PVP can be looted without 'everyone' gaining aggro on him.
I'm thinking specifically about ganking on trade routes (ie, try looting a freighter wreck with a freighter on a busy gate),
but also in just about any fight. Why should 'everyone' gain aggro on you simply by claiming the wreck of a dead opponent?

Soundwave also suggested that gate guns shoot at anyone who takes from a yellow wreck. So try to loot a wartarget or a ganked target that you killed on a gate - boom - gate gun BBQ. Its just inane.