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The Hel supercarrier and Nidhoggur carrier need some attention
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#41 - 2012-09-26 23:16:25 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
In what way did I misrepresent your position?


Price is based on a number of things. One of which is popularity. Another is supply.

I remember Hookbills costing 30mil, yet now they cost only 10-13mil. Should we nerf the Hookbill by 60%?
I remember my first drake cost me 25mil, yet now they are closer to 60 mil... does the drake need buffing?

Another thing that price is based on is mineral cost. What if CCP put drone poo back into the game, suddenly the cost to produce ships drops due to large amounts of minerals flooding the market. Do those ships need to be nerfed now that they are cheaper?

What about modules? You will spend 5,000% more ISK to get an extra 0.025% bonus on a gyrostabilizer (T2 vs Rep fleet) should the T2 be nerfed? Or perhaps the RF should be buffed 5,000%?

What about skills? Rank 1 of a skill that gives 5% takes 12 minutes. Rank V of the same skill still only gives you 5%, but it takes you a week. Should this be changed?

Balancing based on ISK (or SP) required is silly. THAT is my position.
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
#42 - 2012-09-28 00:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrkala
Archon is the best armor triage carrier in the game.

Lets take a look at what factors affect the balance between these two ships:

Archon vs Nidhoggur

- Unpiloted Archon has more PG than a Nidhoggur with a fully skilled pilot in it.
- Archon has a 12% bigger capacitor reservoir meaning longer effective Triage after jumping.
- Archons armor resist bonus helps both local tank and incoming rep after leaving triage.
- All of the Triage fits that I could come up with for the Nidhoggur have lower cap recharge than the Archons vanilla triage fit.
- Nidhoggur can't capitalize on its bonus because of fitting issues. (Thanatos doesn't have these issues.)
- Local Shield, Remote Armor requires PG implant.
- Local Armor, Remote Shield requires 6% CPU implant unless you use meta shield transfers.(lol)
- Fitting implants share slots with cap regen/amount implants and RR implants skewing balance further.
- Local Armor, Remote Armor (2xCAR+3xCRR) fit needs fitting mods/rigs that gimp cap or tank.
- Local Shield, Remote Shield (2xCSB+3xCST) fit needs fitting mods/rigs that gimp cap or tank.
- Nidhoggurs bonus only "effective"/self benefiting on a fleet level if all carriers in fleet are Nidhoggurs.
- Blue Pill boosters don't work on capital shield boosters.
- Exile boosters do work with capital armor repairers.
- Cap Power Relays gimp shield tank (-10% shield boost, stack with stacking penalty though), Cap Recharges have no drawbacks.
- Faction shield modules expensive compared to Faction Armor.
- (I guess drop rates are lower for shield, as are LP costs higher for shield too.)
- Capital Shield Modules burn out quicker than Capital Armor modules when overheating.
- Dual Armor Repper tank is more scalable and variable than a single booster tank. (Although you can overload Invulns)
- Archon has bonus to energy transfer range which synergizes well with armor fleets and chain-triaging a group of carriers.



This makes me to believe that CCP wants people to use Niddys/Thannies to Triage rep mixed tanked small mixed gangs, kitchen sink fleets and POSs.

Of course the Nidhoggur would be quite good and versatile if it was as good as the Archon but at the moment I feel the disparity is just too large... For the few fleets out there that call for a Shield Triage just get someone to use a Chimera its stats actually look pretty good.

If it were me I would start fixing the Nidhoggur by giving it at least the same fittings as a Thanatos as it currently has both lower CPU and PG...
Alphaphi
KASK Heavy logistics
#43 - 2012-09-28 08:50:11 UTC
the problems the nidhoggur have:

fitting
tank
cap

i am flying a shieldtanked nid myself, and i have tried the armor tanked counterpart as well.

when flying shield takned: CPU issues
When flying armor tank : PG issues

the cap holds up poor, and the tank is lacking (both as shield and armor tanked)

while i love the ship, and it's the best carrier rep-amount wise, then it lacks some love.
same about the hel, except that the hel is decently tanked, but lacks some lowslots (1-2)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-09-29 22:44:52 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.


Capitals were never intended to work alone - see the fact that you need a second character just to move between systems. A fleet of neuting Tempests can wreck unsupported supercapitals - while they will never kill off the entire blob due to ECM bursts and fighters chewing away at them one by one, they can cause meaningful damage.

The Nidhoggur is fine, the Hel needs some work, but capitals as a whole are fine.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
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