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Freighters: Time for change ?

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Newsflash
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-09-29 12:24:05 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Newsflash wrote:

why? why it would require nerfing cargobay? this ship is massive unarmed freighter if caught out of hisec it is sure to die even to one ship eventually. in hisec it could with extra HP fend off smaller groups of suicidegankers and only really devoted bigger gangs would bring it down. it would also drop willingnes to gank freighters that do not have hugely expensive cargo..


Where do you put your extra armour if not where the cargobay used to be?


******* bolt it around the ship duh Big smile
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-29 12:25:15 UTC
Newsflash wrote:
why? why it would require nerfing cargobay? this ship is massive unarmed freighter if caught out of hisec it is sure to die even to one ship eventually. in hisec it could with extra HP fend off smaller groups of suicidegankers and only really devoted bigger gangs would bring it down. it would also drop willingnes to gank freighters that do not have hugely expensive cargo..


As the above poster said, where are you going to put all of that extra structure with out vastly reducing the cargo space? The 2 go hand in hand, put on a cargo expander, you lose structure. Put on a reinforced hull mod, you lose cargo.

There is already a great way to reduce peoples willingness to gank a freighter. It already takes a devoted group to gank a freighter because unfortunately, not many groups in this game are able to organise more than 15 people to spend most of the day doing nothing.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-09-29 12:25:35 UTC
Newsflash wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Newsflash wrote:

why? why it would require nerfing cargobay? this ship is massive unarmed freighter if caught out of hisec it is sure to die even to one ship eventually. in hisec it could with extra HP fend off smaller groups of suicidegankers and only really devoted bigger gangs would bring it down. it would also drop willingnes to gank freighters that do not have hugely expensive cargo..


Where do you put your extra armour if not where the cargobay used to be?


******* bolt it around the ship duh Big smile


For the fenrir sure but what about the others?
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-09-29 13:01:53 UTC
Suicide ganking is part of the game mechanics. As many have said, take precautions to protect yourself.

It is not advisable to move more than the value of the freighter in your cargo-hold. For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I suggest a transport ship for expensive items such as these. (see http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Transport_Ships) for the specifics.

You can take extra precautions against such attacks by scouting ahead with an alt or a member of your corporation to spot gate camps. Avoid auto-piloting with a full freighter. Avoid the regularly traveled trade routes. 10 extra jumps in the quiet space lanes is worth the cost of your freighter and it's cargo .. right?

This is the sandbox, adapt to the challenges. Outsmart those who would lay siege on your love-tub and soak up the tears on the forums when they cry that freighters need to get nerfed to only use certain type of stargate.

/thread

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department
Irya Boone
The Scope
#25 - 2012-09-29 13:12:39 UTC
i think Op said , that now with the new tier 3 BC is too more simple to kill an freighter than 1 year ago in the same conditions ..
before the Tier3 killiing a pinata was hard and required people .. now just need a liitle bunch of Skilled Tier 3 pilots and BOOM

so maybe a rebalancinbg due to the Tier3 BC ?? like CCp did for the Mining barges .......

in this case Why did CCP improves tank of mining barges ? ( the Moto of adapt or die does't apply to miners ? ......

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2012-09-29 13:17:06 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
i think Op said , that now with the new tier 3 BC is too more simple to kill an freighter than 1 year ago in the same conditions ..
before the Tier3 killiing a pinata was hard and required people .. now just need a liitle bunch of Skilled Tier 3 pilots and BOOM

so maybe a rebalancinbg due to the Tier3 BC ?? like CCp did for the Mining barges .......

in this case Why did CCP improves tank of mining barges ? ( the Moto of adapt or die does't apply to miners ? ......


It was actually easier because tier 1 battleships were cheaper that t3 bcs are now.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#27 - 2012-09-29 13:19:17 UTC
Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-09-29 13:21:51 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time,

I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :(
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-09-29 13:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
Kult Altol wrote:
Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.


D'awwww someone lose a ship?
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-09-29 13:28:00 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.

I'm old, fat and happy...
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-09-29 13:28:49 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.


D'awwww someone loose a ship?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

Please spell lose as lose and not loose which is describing my sister...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2012-09-29 13:29:50 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.


D'awwww someone loose a ship?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

Please spell lose as lose and not loose which is describing my sister...


Damn you picking up on it before i noticed Pirate
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-09-29 13:30:00 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.


I'm happy to admit that the playstyle of the freighter pilot is inherently flawed. the thing is, the freighter pilots that take precations to not get suicide ganked... They outnumber the ones that don't take precautions. They are the majority, the victims are the minority.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Newsflash
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-09-29 13:31:45 UTC
once more. freighter suiciding: its just too easy and can be done with just few people. otherwise suicideganking is just fine and belongs truly in this game full of evil. just give buff to freighter hulls so it requires more people and more firepower to achieve bringing one down in hisec.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-09-29 13:34:41 UTC
How do you define "too easy" and "too few"? Where's the line? I mean you say it should require 40-50 people, but how do you arrive at that number being a fair number?

(Surely if organising a fleet of ten people is too easy, freighter piloting must also be too easy?)
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2012-09-29 13:34:42 UTC
Newsflash wrote:
once more. freighter suiciding: its just too easy and can be done with just few people. otherwise suicideganking is just fine and belongs truly in this game full of evil. just give buff to freighter hulls so it requires more people and more firepower to achieve bringing one down in hisec.


Repeating an incorrect point over and over again doesn't change the fact that its wrong. It is harder and more expensive than ever to gank freighters. If you are not stupid you will not be ganked. There is no need for a mechanic change.
Hecate Shaw
United Freemerchants Society
#37 - 2012-09-29 13:42:44 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Newsflash wrote:
currently freighters are way too easy to suicidegank and there is nothing pilot can do to prevent it. it does not require many ships to succesfully suicide freighter and because suicideganking is one aspect of this game give freighters much much more HP so atleast gankers need to bring in team of 40-50 ships to achieve their goal. now its just laughably easy done with even under 10 BC for example.


I'm going to have to disagree here as there is quite a few things you can do to prevent it. The first & probably the most obvious is to make yourself unprofitable to gank. 95% of freighter suicide ganks happen because the pilot is making it a profitable venture.
Please re-read your response there...seriously, are freighter pilots supposed to take a loss every time they undock? I mean, you're right in one respect, that there are built-in ways to avoid a gank (NO AUTOPILOT!), but don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable? Personally, I think freighters should have a longer cloak timer, or be covered for part of the time it takes them to align, just so they aren't QUITE so much of a sitting duck.

As for your suggestion of altering routes - that only works so far. Be honest, now, how many freighters have you guys ganked were ones you scouted on previous days, recorded their route, and set up an ambush specifically for them? How many were targets of opportunity along highsec choke points that dip into lower security ratings (Niarja, to name one) that you caught while they tried to align for the next gate? No judgement, honestly curious. If the former, then more power to you, and the freighter pilots need to HTFU. If the latter, maybe there is some merit to the complaint, eh?
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-09-29 13:45:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time,

I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :(


No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses.

Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail.

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2012-09-29 13:46:56 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Newsflash wrote:
currently freighters are way too easy to suicidegank and there is nothing pilot can do to prevent it. it does not require many ships to succesfully suicide freighter and because suicideganking is one aspect of this game give freighters much much more HP so atleast gankers need to bring in team of 40-50 ships to achieve their goal. now its just laughably easy done with even under 10 BC for example.


I'm going to have to disagree here as there is quite a few things you can do to prevent it. The first & probably the most obvious is to make yourself unprofitable to gank. 95% of freighter suicide ganks happen because the pilot is making it a profitable venture.
Please re-read your response there...seriously, are freighter pilots supposed to take a loss every time they undock? I mean, you're right in one respect, that there are built-in ways to avoid a gank (NO AUTOPILOT!), but don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable? Personally, I think freighters should have a longer cloak timer, or be covered for part of the time it takes them to align, just so they aren't QUITE so much of a sitting duck.

As for your suggestion of altering routes - that only works so far. Be honest, now, how many freighters have you guys ganked were ones you scouted on previous days, recorded their route, and set up an ambush specifically for them? How many were targets of opportunity along highsec choke points that dip into lower security ratings (Niarja, to name one) that you caught while they tried to align for the next gate? No judgement, honestly curious. If the former, then more power to you, and the freighter pilots need to HTFU. If the latter, maybe there is some merit to the complaint, eh?


So what you're saying is that the stupid freighter pilots who go in to nijara and die are NOT the ones who need to HFTU? What are you talking about?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-09-29 13:49:10 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable?

No.