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Exploit or not ?

First post
Author
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-09-28 12:58:53 UTC
Jim Hazard wrote:
smokeAjoint wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Smart playing more like, although I too agree that it is kind of silly that a capital ship weighing a ton could be bumped that far by the shields. Your solution for the next similar effort would be to simply bring a fast interceptor, extremely easy to fit them in such way that they cover the 100km distance before the capitals are aligned and able to warp out.


In all likelyhood they aren't going to be doing any aligning. They'll just jump to the escape cyno and leave the system before you can do anything.



than why slingshot yourself out of the pos as you just can cyno out wen sitting in the pos shield?


because you can not jump out of a small POS which is **** caged? maybe?

does it mean attackers put entire POS shield into bubbles? How is it possible?
Or cyno jumps aren't possible when you have bubble on the way? O_o

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-28 12:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
That's like calling shooting the exhaust port on the death star to blow it up an exploit

I recall hearing POS shields are going byebye in the POS rework, so maybe this interesting technique for escape will cease to exist

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-09-28 13:00:25 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Starbuck Arkaral wrote:
No, because they simply used the game's mechanics to their advantage.

That being said, I don't think you should be able to eject a carrier in such
a fashion and I do wish that they would change this. +100km is too far.



I thought using game's mechanics to your advantage was an exploit.

It's not one or the other. It is exactly as you read it. Using game mechanics to your advantage is an exploit only if it's an unsanctioned use or if said game mechanic is a bug.

The only people who can answer (albeit quite self-conflicting at times) are the GMs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-09-28 13:01:23 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jim Hazard wrote:
smokeAjoint wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Smart playing more like, although I too agree that it is kind of silly that a capital ship weighing a ton could be bumped that far by the shields. Your solution for the next similar effort would be to simply bring a fast interceptor, extremely easy to fit them in such way that they cover the 100km distance before the capitals are aligned and able to warp out.


In all likelyhood they aren't going to be doing any aligning. They'll just jump to the escape cyno and leave the system before you can do anything.



than why slingshot yourself out of the pos as you just can cyno out wen sitting in the pos shield?


because you can not jump out of a small POS which is **** caged? maybe?

does it mean attackers put entire POS shield into bubbles? How is it possible?
Or cyno jumps aren't possible when you have bubble on the way? O_o

Put bubbles just outside POS shield, bubble ranges extend all the way into the POS.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#25 - 2012-09-28 13:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
That's like calling shooting the exhaust port on the death star to blow it up an exploit

I recall hearing POS shields are going byebye in the POS rework, so maybe this interesting technique for escape will cease to exist


Most likely yes, but so will a number of other things like dodging Fighters and Bombers by hiding behind shields, staying out of fights while in your ship in space at the POS, hiding in shields in general, (so no more of that for Probers), etc..

edit:

If you've ever scouted a Wormhole and found a POS with 300 ships floating in its shield radius, with no pilots, (except for that one Archon and the Shuttle), you might understand how this could be a good thing.
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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#26 - 2012-09-28 14:10:06 UTC
When use of game mechanics in creative ways results in effects CCP feels are bad for the game, they are declared exploits. In a game a big and meesy at Eve, its hard to imagine that cases like this would not exist. CCP has said many time that they try and make a solid set of rules, we break the system, then they fix it.

Is this one such a case? Im not sure. But it is a case that shows why customer services hates POS shields.

A possible fix: Increase the "drag" a ship has when its going above its top speed. An increase by a factor of 5 or 10 should do the trick.

But if CCP gets rid of POS shields in the starbase revamp, what replaces them? How do you see the enemy to run the POS guns if you must be docked? One answer: Let any docked ship deploy camera drones and take a look around, before undocking. To balance it out, have warp scrams stop docking.

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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#27 - 2012-09-28 14:24:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Starbuck Arkaral wrote:
No, because they simply used the game's mechanics to their advantage.

Not that I agree that this should be declared an exploit, but prior to the changes that made it impossible to warp after committing a criminal act in highsec, it was possible to entirely evade Concord by continuously warping throughout the system for 15 minutes until the GCC ended. This was also, you could very easily and rightly say, using the game's mechanics to an advantage. That doesn't automatically make it not an exploit.


The distinction in this example is that evading Concord was already declared an exploit. Using creative mechanics to perform an exploit in a different way is still performing an exploit.

What was hazy to some was the definition of "evading Concord". Some took it to mean that eventually dying to Concord, after you'd killed everything boomerangingly possible, was not evading Concord. CCP cleared this up and put a stop to it.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#28 - 2012-09-28 14:35:26 UTC
POS without shields seems like it will just help the offensive side even more.

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I invented Tiericide

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#29 - 2012-09-28 14:54:53 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
POS without shields seems like it will just help the offensive side even more.


May depend on the weapons the defenders can install, a POS doomsday weapon, hmmm?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#30 - 2012-09-28 15:18:06 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
POS without shields seems like it will just help the offensive side even more.


May depend on the weapons the defenders can install, a POS doomsday weapon, hmmm?

Lets be a little clearer here. Its the POS force field that may go. It will still have shields, and guns with shields. Guns, arrays, silos and so on would be all part of the starbase, not separate items floating in space. The issue I brought up is right now with the force field you have a place to park supercaps, a forming fleet, and POS gunners. If CCP gets rid of the force field, all those functions have to be handled by new mechanics. For example

Supercaps get docked to an external docking port. In that case the are invulnerable until the starbase is disabled or destroyed, and it has a reinforcement timer.

Fleets can be handled by increasing the ship maintenance array size.

POS gunners need to see out, and to some extent so do fleets that are forming up. That could be handled by letting everyone see outside the station they are docked at. The last is somewhat un-balancing, so to balance it out, allow scrams to block docking.

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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#31 - 2012-09-28 15:20:48 UTC
As far as I'm aware, 'Starbursting' isn't an exploit.

However, in these situations the best course of action is to ask the GMs via a petition.
They're the only people who can say officially and authoritatively if this is an exploit or not.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-09-28 22:48:04 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
As far as I'm aware, 'Starbursting' isn't an exploit.

However, in these situations the best course of action is to ask the GMs via a petition.
They're the only people who can say officially and authoritatively if this is an exploit or not.

But of course, posting GM correspondence is against the rules.

So instead of having a GM post whether or not it's an exploit, the GM office gets bombarded with dozens if not more petitions asking if something is an exploit whenever one of these threads comes up.

Isn't it better just to have them answer here where everybody can see?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#33 - 2012-09-29 03:32:58 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
As far as I'm aware, 'Starbursting' isn't an exploit.

However, in these situations the best course of action is to ask the GMs via a petition.
They're the only people who can say officially and authoritatively if this is an exploit or not.

The Starburst has been around for a long time. There are some pretty cool vids of people doing it on youtube. It is not an exploit.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Ryhss
#34 - 2012-09-29 03:41:49 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
....

Had to as I had no clue what you were on about.
.....

This

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"

TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#35 - 2012-09-29 10:37:29 UTC
Crrrazy Ivan wrote:
I can only assume he means this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4medDjr-0U

As for whether it's an exploit, no. Just clever use of game mechanics.


Agreed with top comment. RnK are Space McGyver.

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.

ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-09-29 10:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Praetoxx
First time I saw this being used was on the RnK video that many have commented on. But as ISD Suvetar has said. If you want official confirmation/clarification on this use of this POS Mechanic, submit a petition Idea

I will add that watching 30+ caps ejected from a POS in this fashion is an AWESOME sight!

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-09-29 12:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Starbuck Arkaral wrote:
No, because they simply used the game's mechanics to their advantage.

Not that I agree or disagree with the OP, but all exploits are game mechanics used to one's own advantage. By your reasoning, no exploit is an exploit.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-09-29 13:49:14 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
First time I saw this being used was on the RnK video that many have commented on. But as ISD Suvetar has said. If you want official confirmation/clarification on this use of this POS Mechanic, submit a petition Idea

I already replied to ISD Suvetar's post as to why this is a generally undesirable way of going about such things. It would be easier on both the players and the GMs if they could answer here. Since we're not allowed to post our GM correspondence here, we can't, at least not within the rules, communicate to others that GM so and so said that doing x, y, or z was an exploit. This leads to many multiples of people sending petitions asking the same damn thing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#39 - 2012-09-29 17:17:20 UTC
Considering how many caps have been lost to POS bowling I'd call it small justice.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-09-29 17:44:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
First time I saw this being used was on the RnK video that many have commented on. But as ISD Suvetar has said. If you want official confirmation/clarification on this use of this POS Mechanic, submit a petition Idea

I already replied to ISD Suvetar's post as to why this is a generally undesirable way of going about such things. It would be easier on both the players and the GMs if they could answer here. Since we're not allowed to post our GM correspondence here, we can't, at least not within the rules, communicate to others that GM so and so said that doing x, y, or z was an exploit. This leads to many multiples of people sending petitions asking the same damn thing.


I am looking into this and the policy surrounding posting GM responses. I will update you on the outcome.

For now, do not post anything regarding your correspondence with the GM's.

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department

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