Science & Industry

No for production of t2 salvage parts from lvl4.

Are you kidding me? You must have absolutely zero understanding of economics to even think that, or just be a giant troll. I can generate more salvage and bounties ratting in 0.0 then I could in HS L4s.

The earnings of selling fixed salvage are going to be minimal if everybody gets the chance at it. Many people are going to sell it at little profit. Printing ISK only occurs (not counting bounties) when a limited amount of people has access to a resource, which is closer to what you are suggesting.


Now read this quote from an earlier post of mine:
This was me throwing you a capital sized bone. It would be unique and you wouldn't have to compete in the market with missioners or ratters.

I also like how you fail to include mission rewards and loyalty points in your comparisons. Oops, did I type that, I wanted to say: I sympathise with you that it is a hard grind in your officer fit CNR and you don't make all that much ISK, really you don't.


This, is so wrong, but nice effort.

Dude. You are just completely wrong on spawn mechanics. It doesn't work that way at all. It kind of makes the rest of your argument suspect when you don't even understand basic game mechanics.

Admittedly, I have not run exploration sites recently. If my argument against Mag sites is based on obsolete, or just incorrect, information, then I freely apologize for my mistake.

As for one mistake invalidating an entire argument, well, I guess that is up to you.

I also happen to believe that Falin Whalen is mistaken on some points, and I may not agree with his preference for dev work priorities, but that does not necessaily invalidate his whole argument. Among the flaming/trolling (which I always find fun, so keep it up), there are valid points and counter-arguments, which keep this thread interesting. :)

And, back on topic, we all do agree that T2 rig production needs fixing, preferably this year... right?

Even though his posts are often of a troll-ish nature that doesn't make him wrong. As a matter of fact he is just right about this one. If you have only 10 people in a game, everyone owns 1000 isk they can mine all they want, nobody will ever have more than 10000 ISK. EVER! Actually less over time if transactions cost a tax... This basic principle doesn't change just because it's billions of trillions of ISK that exist in the game of thousands of players. The only faucets are anything that make the game have more ISK (bounties, npc buy-orders, ...), and the only sinks are mechanics that remove ISK from the game (npc sell-orders, taxes, ...).
This also leads to the ridiculous situation where losing a ship can actually be an ISK faucet. You get money from the insurance, which has to be balanced against all the money that way payed for it including the insurance premium (to "the game", not other players, but potentially by other players before they sold you that stuff). If you had a lot of faction items from LP stores which require ISK payments, those obviously have to be considered. In most cases a ship destruction will therefore create ISK. Unexpectedly this makes all insurances which are NOT payed out an ISK sink.

But this all is beside the point, I'm sure CCP knows better when and to what extent this has to be considered, it's their game after all and in their best interest to keep it healthy! Also they are the only ones who have access to the kind of information you need to make informed decisions about this.

Can we please get back to the original question, how to create volume in the T2 rigs market? We got somewhat sidetracked to something that's barely an issue here as it doesn't really apply to the situation

Good, more people actively talking about this is of course preferable!

And talking about your false assumptions (or rather 'outdated information') and how they impact your argument: It kinda takes away the foundation, but what DOES remain is there exploration sites are relatively scarce. The most common by far are wormholes/unknowns followed by grav sites. At the other end of the spectrum are Mag and Radar sites, I'd guess with an about equal amount of each of them. This would HAVE to change for the most commonly proposed solution - increasing drops in mag sites - to have a large enough impact on T2 salvage parts supply and the following drop in T2 rig prices.
Also the BPC runs have to be increased (I personally think 5 runs would be fine, but 10 are also not overreaching) in any case so the new volume can be handled.

Personally I still don't think it's wise to implement such a change without looking in the more distant future when the balancing will once again break due to changing conditions and the adjustments will again fall though the cracks. CCP has a huge list of stuff that needs to be looked at just a bit to rebalance it again,but that all adds up to a LOT of work! So I'd rather we use this chance to get some system in place which will compensate - at least to some degree - upcoming changes to the situation!

Lastly let me also propose that if some T1 --> T2 alchemy-like mechanism is implemented, the inverse should also be possible! This ensures that the system can not only compensate for too little T2 salvage, but also for too much. It can be done simply through reprocessing, which would be the preferred mechanism if the primary direction was done with BPs I suppose.

I came up with an idea about the salvage mechanic.

The problem is that some salvage materials are too rare (for example Intact Armor plates). Refining them in basic materials and then reproduce could lead to an imbalance because of stockpiles.
But what if there were some blueprints to produce micro circuits out of trigger units?
For example you need 40 trigger units for a micro circuit. If such blueprints would come then manufacturing slots would be rare and you would need a ton of new BPO`s.

To avoid this lets build them via Planetary Interaction!
Create some new factories for the planets where salvage parts can be produced. Give them a new factory so that the production lines are separated. With this you can easily adjust the amount of low value salvage needed for the rarer salvage and you can also add a new way to get T2 salvage. Also all blueprints are in the factories so no need to buy them or even invent them.

Doing it with Pi would also time buffer the whole stockpile issue due to the production cycles of the factories and the maximum layout of the whole colony. This would also give PI a advanced meaning in EVE.
Import/export costs won`t be this high also because ALL savage parts are 0,01m³ big and so the costs should be low. This also is an advantage because with a 0,01m³ volume of the parts you have plenty of space in your spaceport to get waste amounts of materials on the planet.

With this idea you don`t need to change the salvage mechanic itself or the drop rates. You just create a second way of getting better salvage and you improve the Planetary Interaction and bring EVE some more sandboxyness because everybody can choose what he/she is going to produce with the salvage and the markt can react to shortages on its own with just switching the production on the planets.

well this is a tough one. if you want it to be a bit more common place and looking at it from a consumer point of view: are the bonuses you get from a large t2 rig really worth the isk? looking at the rigs say a trimark gives you 10% bonus but the T2 version only gives you only 5% more but costs over twice as much. consumer satisfaction isn't very high on most t2 rig items due to this fact.

Seller point of view: demand is very low and the product is not appealing to consumers. the price is elastic.

Producer point of view: it's difficult to make and time consuming. the amount of resources and time put into t2 manufacturing makes these items not efficient to produce for most manufacturers when comparing to most other luxury items.

Solution: make the luxury item more appealing to the consumer. instead of an extra 5% bonus it should be 10%. the appeal of using the rig will go up and so will demand. i think

Sry my mistake. With my idea i meant the standard salvage mechanic(for example in missions) not the mag site`s themself and i`m the same opinion that mag site`s need to be fixed.

Great ideas, if you could set your salvager to one of three settings via say scripts? The T3 salvage is icon coded per item it is used in, perhaps you could use something similar here.

Also, any chance that taking a rig OFF a ship (destroying it) could result in some salvage components?

Personally I'd love if ONLY the cargo hold dropped in a can and all the weapons, etc had to be salvaged off ships.

I know, I'm crazy.